Bleednipple Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) Very topically, this letter yesterday (who knew we had a Minister for Roads, Buses and Places?!) It appears the MOT issue on headlights has just gone away for pre Apr 1986 cars. It doesn't appear to address the wider issue of 'non-legality' of LED replacement lamps however. Nigel Edited March 16, 2021 by Bleednipple Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 I've said this before, but according to the vehicle lighting regs (referred to in the letter above) for pre 1986 cars the only lamps in which fitting an LED bulb would contravene the rules are indicators, & headlights. In both these cases a minimum wattage is quoted, which LED bulbs fall short of, simply because they are much more efficient than the bulbs they replace. If the term "equivalent wattage" had been used, then they would be ok. I for one am happy to interpret the rule to mean "equivalent wattage" Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Lebro said: I've said this before, but according to the vehicle lighting regs (referred to in the letter above) for pre 1986 cars the only lamps in which fitting an LED bulb would contravene the rules are indicators, & headlights. In both these cases a minimum wattage is quoted, which LED bulbs fall short of, simply because they are much more efficient than the bulbs they replace. If the term "equivalent wattage" had been used, then they would be ok. I for one am happy to interpret the rule to mean "equivalent wattage" Bob +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Bleednipple said: Very topically, this letter yesterday (who knew we had a Minister for Roads, Buses and Places?!) It appears the MOT issue on headlights has just gone away for pre Apr 1986 cars. It doesn't appear to address the wider issue of 'non-legality' of LED replacement lamps however. Nigel Thanks Nigel! (No, I didn't know that!) Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harbottle Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Bleednipple said: +1 +2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kcsun Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 This from DOT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HSM Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 DVSA special notice,Class 3,4,& 7, vehicles, Light source & lamp not compatible only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1986. Vehicles presented for test before this date must not be failed with immediate effect. Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1st April 1986 will continue to fail. Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test & headlamp aim. Rule changes effective from 22nd March 2021 Regards Harvey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kcsun Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 There are new rules regarding headlights, see my other post kc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Tim, you have a PM. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 How can I present my vehicle for test before 1 April 1986? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stillp said: How can I present my vehicle for test before 1 April 1986? Pete Unclear wording, it means a vehicle first used before that date Stuart. Edited March 19, 2021 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Yes, I realise that. Is that what the official statement actually states? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, stillp said: Yes, I realise that. Is that what the official statement actually states? Pete Having only seen OP I couldnt say but it does look like it as he is an MOT tester AFIK. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, stillp said: How can I present my vehicle for test before 1 April 1986? The original letter was posted in the TR6 forum by kcsun, and it does say exactly that. I wonder if it was proof-read before issue? Just a sign of the times I guess - country goin' to the dogs, etc etc..... Edited March 19, 2021 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, stuart said: Unclear wording, it means a vehicle first tested before that date i.e. 3 yrs old at that date. Stuart. Certainly is badly worded Stuart. I thought perhaps they'd omitted the word "first" before "presented for test", but that seems to conflict with "vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1986". Still, whatever the intention it clearly lets most of our cars off the hook. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Speculation about the actual wording is (as usual) easily addressed by reference to the source material. In this case on gov.uk website. Google is our friend. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions It says: For class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles, the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986. Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect. Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed. Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim. The cars and passenger vehicles inspection manual will be updated shortly. Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, stillp said: Certainly is badly worded Stuart. I thought perhaps they'd omitted the word "first" before "presented for test", but that seems to conflict with "vehicles first used on or after 1st April 1986". Still, whatever the intention it clearly lets most of our cars off the hook. Pete Note I edited my post to read first used, I dont think it actually meant when first MOTed which would have meant 3 yrs old. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bleednipple said: Speculation about the actual wording is (as usual) easily addressed by reference to the source material. In this case on gov.uk website. Google is our friend. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions It says: For class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles, the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986. Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect. Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed. Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim. The cars and passenger vehicles inspection manual will be updated shortly. Nigel Good point Nigel, thanks! That second sentence is appalling, but I think we can tell what they meant to say. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 If a TARDIS was either a group 3,4,5 or 7 then it could get there before April 1986. Just helping Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 minute ago, stillp said: Good point Nigel, thanks! That second sentence is appalling, but I think we can tell what they meant to say. Pete Yes indeed. Now, who has upgraded the H4s in their TR headlamps? How has it it turned out? I know there are several specialists out there supplying LEDs, including: http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/ https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/ Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 It would be an interesting exercise to compare the various offering from manufacturers. I have some Chinese cheap NigyhtEye and they work very well and fit OK inside the lamp bowl. The colour is ideally too white for my liking but certainly works. Insitu for three years now and still going strong I can only imagine that the Classic car Leds must be somewhat better as they are significantly more expensive. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 I replaced the sealed beams in my 4A with H4 headlamps and LEDs - I bought the cheapest headlamps I could find, and used the Nighteyes LEDs recommended by Roger H. My MOT tester told me last year he was happy with LEDs as long as the beam pattern was correct - which it wasn't. It was close to a LHD beam pattern. After an exchange of emails with the supplier of the headlamps, I bought some better ones, but the beam pattern was still poor. Then I read the instructions for the LEDs and realised the lamp base can be fitted in either LHD or RHD orientations... I'm now very pleased with the conversion, I can see where I'm going at night now, and the drain on the battery is much less. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 minute ago, stillp said: I replaced the sealed beams in my 4A with H4 headlamps and LEDs - I bought the cheapest headlamps I could find, and used the Nighteyes LEDs recommended by Roger H. My MOT tester told me last year he was happy with LEDs as long as the beam pattern was correct - which it wasn't. It was close to a LHD beam pattern. After an exchange of emails with the supplier of the headlamps, I bought some better ones, but the beam pattern was still poor. Then I read the instructions for the LEDs and realised the lamp base can be fitted in either LHD or RHD orientations... I'm now very pleased with the conversion, I can see where I'm going at night now, and the drain on the battery is much less. Pete Don't blame me - I'm an idiot. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 About six months ago, I was thinking about fitting LED headlights to my TR3a but I held off doing so for financial reasons (I had just spent a load of money on some other stuff). I also reasoned that my H4 bulbs did a pretty good job and I didn't do enough night time driving to warrant it, although I am very grateful for Bob LeBrocq's LEd conversion for the rear lights. Bearing in mind the amount of confusion that seems to exist around this topic, I am pleased I held off but I sympathise with those who are having to make a decision on whether to retain their LED headlights. Incidentally, I have LED sidelight/indicators at the front and won't be changing them. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, RogerH said: Don't blame me - I'm an idiot. Roger Perhaps, but a useful one! 7 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said: Bearing in mind the amount of confusion that seems to exist around this topic, I am pleased I held off but I sympathise with those who are having to make a decision on whether to retain their LED headlights. Incidentally, I have LED sidelight/indicators at the front and won't be changing them. Rgds Ian I think there is now no need for confusion Ian. Well, not about LED headlights anyway! I've changed my rear stop/tail light for LEDs from Classic Car LEDs, and very pleased with the increased brightness and lower current drain. I held off changing the indicators as I didn't want to change the flasher relay. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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