gloide69 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hi The engine on my TR4 restoration project was seized, so I don't know whether it was a good runner when it was laid up circa 30 years ago. It is all in bits now and I'm starting to look at the head. It' a 511695 and after cleaning it up, I noticed what appears to be a crack between the inlet and exhaust ports on number 1 cylinder. I guess this means my hope to just lap in the valves, is over. It looks to me as thought the Exhaust valve seats already have an insert fitted, would getting new seat for the inlets, fix the problem. Thanks Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hi Paul, it must be worth a try. Ask the machine shop that if a small crack remains after machining could the remnant of the crack be brazed etc simply to hold it together Certainly worth asking. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaveN Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Might be work a call to Cast Iron Welding Services and ask them. The inlet valve seat is goosed too and even a seat (I guess they are available somewhere) you would run the risk of it dropping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 I can't help wondering if the crack is the result of fitting the hard exhaust seat ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hi Bob, it is a very common area for cracking. Often the hardened seat is fitted because there was a crack there in the first place. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Might be worth asking Hamlin Tel: + 44 (0) 1278 422452 what they would do, they now get cracked blocks Laser welded with good results. They have a lot of TR knowledge. Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, DaveN said: Might be work a call to Cast Iron Welding Services and ask them. The inlet valve seat is goosed too and even a seat (I guess they are available somewhere) you would run the risk of it dropping. Only seat fitted on the exhaust valve Dave, not normally needed on the Inlet (fuel charge cools it more). Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Talk to Standwoods in Bawtry as your in the North, they have good experience with TR engines https://www.stanwoodengineering.co.uk/ Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PaulAnderson Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) See also https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/66117-well-thats-not-good/ For head repairs Paul Edited March 15, 2021 by PaulAnderson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gloide69 Posted May 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 A bit of an update, but more advice needed: I had the head tested, but surprisingly it only needed a new core plug and 5 thou skimming of face. I've got the engine back in the car, but I'm not ready to run it yet (waiting on a exhaust and some fuel line), but being a little be curious, I decided to do a compression test. I'm a little disappointed with the results, No.1=3=4 at about 120psi, but No 2 is only getting approx 80psi. The crack was on No.1 so that is not an explanation. The question is whether this can be expected on a newly rebuilt engine and I should continue on to see what happens, or should take it apart again to find out what is wrong with No.2? Thanks Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 Hi Paul, the pistons, rings, and valves need bedding in. Give it 500 - 1000 miles and then test again. Did the workshop do anything with the crack. I would be surprised if they didn't - most odd. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 Would fitting a seat for the inlet valve not remove the crack? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 “The question is whether this can be expected on a newly rebuilt engine “ OK...give us a clue, from what you say this “ newly rebuilt engine” is the original engine block and bottom end but just has the head refitted with a new head gasket ( what sort) and with a new core plug and a 5 thou skim...is that correct ? If it’s had work carried out on the block and bottom end ( pistons,rings, honed liners etc) or on the valves and valve seats, what was it, and were the engine liner heights checked before the head was refitted, and have the tappers been reset ? All this info is necessary to decide what may be wrong, and searching this thread I can’t see where it’s been given. MickRichards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gloide69 Posted May 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2021 Hi Mick Its had a complete strip and rebuild, one of the big-ends was rusted. Most parts are new but I have reused the liners (no wear ridge, just honed them) and pistons but with new rings. Pistons were +030 so I assumed they have been changed relatively recently. I also reused the valves (cleaned and reground). When the head came back, I did a quick check to see if the valves were leaking, filling the combustion chambers with petrol and all seems OK. I read the many guides about the liner heights, so I went through the pain. I had to use steel fo8 gaskets to get acceptable protrusions of 3 to 4 thou. The valve clearances have been set, and as its easy, I have double checked to see if anything was amiss on No.2, but clearance still looks OK. Hope that helps with a bit of the background. Cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 12, 2021 Report Share Posted May 12, 2021 Hi Paul, if you are happy to have a small gamble on the head surviving for a decent time then go for it. But be prepared for a head removal at sometime in the future.. The head is easy to remove when necessary - BUT if the crack grows it will probably take the head gasket with it and this then may require the block to be reskimmed. AND at present the head crack is repairable for £100 or so. If the crack grows it may become un-repairable. A second hand head of unknown quality will be £400 +++ A new head will be £2000+++ Confirm with the workshop as to what they did with the crack. If they did nothing then remove it and get it sorted - it will save you ££££££££££££££££££££ Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 12, 2021 Report Share Posted May 12, 2021 That RogerH is always on the money, if using the car for 3000 miles a year the crack may not immediately be a cause of a problem but is it the sort of potential failure you’d be wary of, if going for a 3000 mile across continent trip. As Roger says because of the rehone and inner engine work it’s difficult to precisely pin the extra lower compression on the No2 cylinder, his good advice is the way to go, 1000 miles (including the necessary head retorque) and then retest the compressions. With such a drop on the No2 cylinder it’s possible there’s a ring problem but it’s either strip now or bed the liners in to get compressions but risk damaging that low compression liner if a ring is broken. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gloide69 Posted May 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 Well, it didn't take too long to get No.2 out to check, glad I did. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 It is always good to find a reason for an issue. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted May 13, 2021 Report Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, gloide69 said: Well, it didn't take too long to get No.2 out to check, glad I did. Well done, a small pain now prevents later shenanigans out of all proportion to what it’s just cost you. Mick Richards Edited May 13, 2021 by Motorsport Mickey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 To be fair it is not unheard of to bust a ring on assembly but you usually hear that sickening noise as you do it so carrying on having heard it is frustrating as it means much more work that if you do it at the time! Who rebuilt your engine? Rusty bearings is a worrying sign of a job done badly. At least you have go to the bottom of the issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 What did they do to sort the head crack? Putting an insert into the inlet should machine away most of the crack and the two inserts then sandwich a crack which goes to nowhere providing the machine shop is good and has the right inserts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted June 4, 2021 Report Share Posted June 4, 2021 3 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: Who rebuilt your engine? Rusty bearings is a worrying sign of a job done badly. I understood that was one of the reasons for the rebuild. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Andy Moltu said: Who rebuilt your engine? Rusty bearings is a worrying sign of a job done badly. Read the OP Engine hasnt been run in 30 yrs and then rebuilt due to rust. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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