Oil Pressure

[John Reilly]

I am wondering how long it takes for the lubrication system to prime after the engine being overhauled and all the system drained down?

I have turned the engine (spun) with the starter motor with plugs removed to reduce load but no oil coming out the gauge connection.

The pump driveshaft is  engaged, I already checked that, has anybody been through this process?

John

 

 

[iain]

Yes, it’s usually within 10 seconds or so if the line is empty.

Iain

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Did you pre oil the filter element and fill the oil filter canister with oil?   Shortens the priming time.

Peter W

[ianc]

When I change the oil and filter, I fit a new filter, put some oil into the sump, remove the plugs and then turn the engine on the starter.

It takes about 40 or more seconds before the oil pressure gauge lifts from zero, but when it does, I stop the use of the starter, install the plugs and start the engine.

Once running, I check that there's no leak from the oil filter can.

Finally, I stop the engine, let the oil settle, then check the oil level and fill to between half and 3/4 way up the dip stick.  No point in filling higher as, if filled to the Full level, the oil level will drop quite rapidly in the first 100-150 miles to below 3/4 full.

Ian Cornish

[Ian Vincent]

So there you have it, 10 secs for Iain and 40 secs for Ian C.  I would tend to side with Ian C, when I spun mine over after rebuilding it I would guess about 20 secs minimum.

But initially I didn't bleed the line up to the gauge which means the column of air in the line had to be compressed before I got a reading.

Rgds Ian

[stuart]

1 hour ago, ianc said:

When I change the oil and filter, I fit a new filter, put some oil into the sump, remove the plugs and then turn the engine on the starter.

It takes about 40 or more seconds before the oil pressure gauge lifts from zero, but when it does, I stop the use of the starter, install the plugs and start the engine.

Once running, I check that there's no leak from the oil filter can.

Finally, I stop the engine, let the oil settle, then check the oil level and fill to between half and 3/4 way up the dip stick.  No point in filling higher as, if filled to the Full level, the oil level will drop quite rapidly in the first 100-150 miles to below 3/4 full.

Ian Cornish

I find with my 4a just over half way up the the dip stick is just right, any higher and it does the same and burns it off, most 4 pot TR engines are the same.

Stuart.

[John Reilly]

Thanks everyone,

I did not fill the oil canister so i will do that before trying again. I have left the oil pipe to the gauge open to bleed it and confirm oil is circulating. I spun the engine for at least 40 sec. 

Ian's 40 sec is with a system that has, prior to emptying the sump, been primed so the galleries and oilways have residues of oil inside so perhaps maybe it will take a bit longer that I expect.

It goes against the grain to crank the engine without oil pressure, I was used to working with bigger engines that all had separate priming pumps 

John

[Lebro]

Probably a bit late now, but if you remove the distributor & it's pedestal you can use a cordless drill (running in reverse) to spin the oil pump by attaching the chuck onto the oil pump drive.

Bob.

[John Reilly]

Why didn't I think of that?

Very good idea, I'll think about taking off the distributor again, I already took it off to check the engagement of the drive 

Thanks Bob

 

[Motorsport Mickey]

1 hour ago, Ian Vincent said:

So there you have it, 10 secs for Iain and 40 secs for Ian C.  I would tend to side with Ian C, when I spun mine over after rebuilding it I would guess about 20 secs minimum.

But initially I didn't bleed the line up to the gauge which means the column of air in the line had to be compressed before I got a reading.

Rgds Ian

I'm with Ian. After a complete rebuild (so initially completely dry engine) but with pre filled oil filter housing I reckon 30 secs before I even bother looking for oil via the rocker shaft and then oil pressure coming up.

Also + 1 with Stuart, the engine will find it's own happy oil level on the stick where it manages to get the oil back down into the sump before it get's burned off. The dipsticks marks just mean the oil should be somewhere between the marks, if I was going on a 2000 mile road trip I'd certainly make sure it was at the halfway mark between, thats where my engines seem to settle at.

Mick Richards

[ianc]

John - I wouldn't bother to fill the filter can before installation as it makes it a messy and awkward job.

Bob's suggestion is very helpful - well worth trying as it would get the system primed.

If your engine has been completely stripped and re-built, then I imagine that there will not be any lubricant in the crankshaft, camshaft, rockers and between pistons  & liners.

With the plugs and rocker cover removed, you could squirt some oil down the bores (only a little), onto the rocker shaft and down the pushrod tubes.  If the sump is off, you could squirt oil onto the crankshaft bearings - but I guess it's too late for that!

Then, with plugs removed, the loading on the crankshaft will be as low as you can get it and you should see pressure within a minute.

If Mick (far more experienced than most everyone other than Stuart) is prepared to spin a re-built engine with plugs removed until pressure is seen, then I don't think you need worry.

Ian Cornish

[John Reilly]

Thanks Ian,

I think I will try and do what Bob suggested. I am not too concerned about the bearings as I put copious spread of graphite grease in all sensitive areas. I know I will have (hopefully) pressurised black oil for a while!

John

 

[trchris]

Hi John

Graphite grease ?? I was taught when rebuilding engines  " plenty of oil from a can  and don't use your bloody dirty fingers to rub it around the surfaces " I would also pre fill the filter if its a canister

Chris

[John Reilly]

Chris,

On the forum I generally seek advice and whilst criticism may be useful it is also useful to understand the circumstances surrounding decisions made and actions taken in any regard.

Ordinarily I would agree that it is sufficient to have clean oil applied to an engine being rebuilt and being put into immediate use, however; I was not sure how long my particular engine might lie unused before being put into use. That is why I sought the advice from a TR Restorer when finalising the work. That restorer was the man who restored the TR6 I owned some years ago. He restored it 15 years before I bought it and I had it for 5 years, the engine remained in very good order throughout.

[Ian Vincent]

Just to add my five bobsworth, Penrite do a really nice assembly lube that has a real stickiness factor.  It has the consistency of treacle and I wouldn't expect it to drain away into the sump even if you left the engine for a few weeks before turning it over.

Rgds Ian

[iain]

+1 for Penrite, I also like the Kent cams lube, which is like red treacle! I don’t suggest one ingests it though:-)

Iain

[John Reilly]

Bob's suggestion put to work with success.

System primed.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Great news. Must be a relief.

Peter W

[John Reilly]

Yes Peter, I was starting to worry that I had missed something somewhere, you know that little warning bell that tinkles at the back of your brain!

[Charlie D]

When I had an oil leak I decided to add some more marks to the dipstick just so I could see how much I was loosing.

Not sure how useful it is, but it’s easy enough to do.

At least you can use it if you want to fill up to halfway more accurately (and then see how much it goes down).

 

Charlie.

[David Owen]

On 3/12/2021 at 4:19 PM, John Reilly said:

Yes Peter, I was starting to worry that I had missed something somewhere, you know that little warning bell that tinkles at the back of your brain!

 

 

And I thought it was tinnitus.

[MilesA]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:49 AM, Charlie D said:

When I had an oil leak I decided to add some more marks to the dipstick just so I could see how much I was loosing.

Not sure how useful it is, but it’s easy enough to do.

At least you can use it if you want to fill up to halfway more accurately (and then see how much it goes down).

 

Charlie.

Toyed with this idea a few times. Anyone know the approximate capacity of oil indicated between the existing two lines on the dip stick?

Miles