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According to the Royal Collage of Nursing, the average salary for a nurse in the UK is £33,384. So how does a 1% pay rise equate to £3.50 per week?

According to nurses.co.uk:

A newly qualified Band 5 NHS Nurse currently earns £24,907, I guess the maths work for that salary but that is not the whole picture.

The salary ranges at each banding beyond this level are:

• Band 6: £31,365 to £37,890

• Band 7: £38,890 to £44,503

• Band 8: £45,753 to £87,754

• Band 9: £91,004 to £104,927

Can't be many nurses on the top bands to produce the above average.

Recognition can come in many forms, salary is often not very effective in terms of value and recognition from the employees standpoint and staff retention from the employers standpoint. Stories of bonuses and other benefits given out to nurses by specific trusts of individual hospitals sound far more powerful.

Just as an example: taking the £3.50 per week, if that was doubled to £7 per week or even £14 per week, does that solve staff retention and make nurses feel valued? I suspect not. It is probably a lot more complex than that.

Mick

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I dont see retention of nurses as a problem about to arise. What other jobs would they take in an economy that has been trashed. And with NHS waiting lists through the roof opportunties for career advancement must surely soon be abundant. I do have concerns about recruitment onto nursing degree courses as the pandemic has highlighted the risk to health. However even this may  not arise as secure, interesting  careers elsewhere may eb thin on the ground. And those disenchanted with the vagaries of the hospitality industry etc. may be tempted to enroll.

As Neil says, tough times ahead. A reprise of the post-war decades. A good job with a career is worth hanging onto.

Peter

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That is insulting to nurses, Peter, as if those talented, intelligent people were incapable of doing anything except wipe bottoms and make beds.    Please retract those remarks!

John

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There are very many people - hundreds of thousands or maybe even more - for whom the lockdown has been a complete disaster. They have lost a substantial part, or in some cases all, of their income and are unlikely to recover it quickly either.

 While I have great sympathy for the nurses position they were paid throughout, and are at least getting some increase meagre though it may be.   In the circumstances is it not better that whatever money is still left after everything that has been hosed into questionable Covid measures, is mainly used to support the people who are in greater need?

 

 

Edited by RobH
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I think there are 2 very separate issues within this. One being "cost of living pay award", and the other being any potential to financially acknowledge those who have been and who still are directly involved in an "overly hazardous environment". If the 2 issues are rolled into 1 with expectation to be solved by a higher than normal pay award for all, then those who have been in the very front line might well feel their involvement has not been sufficiently acknowledged compared to others further away from that very front line. Similarly a new recruit in the future would benefit from a "Covid" pay award when they've not been involved at all. My own view is that the Pay Review Body should be taking all these issues into consideration within their normal process, but that the 2 issues should remain distinct from each other and not muddled together...... although how you decide who should or should not receive a "hazardous" payment is another probable argument that would encompass all NHS staff - not solely nurses. From near enough 40 years of working in the NHS before my retirement I don't personally see recruitment & retention being an issue, but with c1 million employees..... many will not be happy whatever the outcome. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

That is insulting to nurses, Peter, as if those talented, intelligent people were incapable of doing anything except wipe bottoms and make beds.    Please retract those remarks!

John

You retract yours'. that is not what I said.

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There is no money tree and as has already been said, there are plenty of people who have been made redundant, many others who have only been on 80% and then there are those self employed who have had nothing. 

Rgds Ian

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Just a few thoughts;

Not all nurses were involved directly on the front line battle with COVID involving critical care or IC.

Many other health care professionals were equally involved but are generally forgotten.

A proportion of nurses were themselves self isolating and some simply refused to come in citing they were too "scared" as an excuse.

Agree pay the ones Directly involved with COVID care including those involved in social care environments a tax free bonus and forget the rest

The NHS doesn't need an evergreen money tree there is enough waste and mismanagement to pay for a 10% rise and deal with the waiting lists. Instead it throws the money over the wall into the private sector where generally there is no problem with capacity, recruitment and retention with NHS non medical staff happy to work overtime there due to enhanced pay rates along with doctors only too willing to help with the NHS gravy train that will be rolling in through the front door. This is while the NHS day job for some of them is seen as charity work with no incentive to improve the efficiency of services they lead or are involved in as their contracts allow this to be so. While NHS managers who most frankly couldn't run a sweet shop in a school yard and make a profit fail to be able to effectively manage the medics and services to improve them for the public good as a medic can not be managed by a non medic they can only advise or hope for cooperation.

Theres a nursing shortage because the bursary was removed along with those for many other health care professions resulting in a 40% drop in new recruits over the past 3 years. Factor in the ageing nursing population its no wonder there is shortages. Also do you need a degree to be a good nurse? Or is more that the universities see it as a way of making money as the quality of the final uni product seems ill prepared for clinical practice. Interesting that the apprenticeship, cadet route into nurse training and other health professions and the bursar is been reinstated.

COVID won't be the last virus to be classed as a pandemic and is a minor one at that compared to the plague of history or God forbid Ebola, would the NHS cope? I suspect not while the root cause of an increasing world population and destruction of the environment makes the perfect situation for viruses to jump animal species and into man.

Andy 

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I think the idea of graduate nurses was to do some of the jobs previously only doen by doctors.- they are cheaper and quicker to train, and less expesive to employ.

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3 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

I think the idea of graduate nurses was to do some of the jobs previously only doen by doctors.- they are cheaper and quicker to train, and less expesive to employ.

Problem is even if trained it depends on the degree of opposition or cooperation the medics give which dictates the scope of practice hence the massive disparity in the opportunities nurses get to expand their practice to the benefit of patient care this also applies to many other allied health profession. I'm afraid the medical monopoly is alive and well in a lot of areas with the elephant in the room of private practice the real problem for some. 

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Don't hate anyone just the system which allows patients to be at the bottom of the pile of priorities.

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10 hours ago, ntc said:

Private? I know somebody who was told the earliest that I could do the operation in the nhs is six months but I can do it in a private clinic next week go figure 

Hi Neil,

it is simply down to waiting list time.

Sue is waiting for a Hip replacement. She saw the consultant in Feb 2020 with an op date of Nov 2020. This was delayed till Jan 26th 2021 and was then cancelled at the last minute.  We spoke to the consultant about going private and he would have none of it. It would be too expensive he said. 

Private would have done it immediately but they did not want our money - probably about £12,000

 

Roger

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Isn't there something strange about a system that allows a surgeon to manage his patients lists and waiting times yet offer quick service for private work?

It is obvious that if there was no waiting list then there would be no private work, therefore the waiting list would have to be invented.

I'm not saying anyone is corrupt, just that the system is flawed and offers opportunities for the undesirable business practices 

Alan

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There is a school of thought, we engage in contracts, if I have a contact to undertake 40 hours work with you and have fulfilled the agreed hours.

Provided I am not using any equipment or materials provided by that contract.  

Unless it effects their ability to carry out or detracts from the work being done for you in a satisfactory manner. Why should that be the business of anyone else.

I have been happy to pay for medication and perhaps take a different view that I am not drawing on nhs resources 

 

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I've wondered about this and how the inherent conflicts of interest are managed. Given that an NHS doctor doing private work stands to gain financially from one of their patients who takes the private option (assuming the same doctor ends up treating the patient privately which will often be the case), how can s/he be sure they are giving transparently objective advice to their patients about which way to go?

It would certainly be an issue in other professions, which is why conflicts of interest are so carefully managed.

I suspect it all goes back to the establishment of the NHS in 1948 when Nye Bevan famously admitted he had "stuffed their [ie hospital consultants'] mouths with gold" in allowing them to keep their private side hustles, to avert a BMA strike.

A cynic might reflect that "all professions are conspiracies against the laity". But I don't mean to imply any disrespect to hard working and dedicated medics, and I apologise if any of the above misrepresents how the system actually works - I have no experience of the NHS myself other than as a patient.

However from that perspective I do recall, many years ago in hospital after an accident, being asked whether I had private insurance before I was sent to theatre for surgery. I asked if it would make any difference to the treatment the ortho surgeon gave me in there, and that was met with what I thought was an embarrassed silence... :rolleyes:

Nigel

Edited by Bleednipple
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My experiences are 

The NHS consultant put us off using him for a private op.(Sues Hip)

My GP is not allowed to treat me privately - however I could be treated by another GP privately.

An NHS consultant did treat me privately (for an ear problem using the BA private medical scheme)

All the NHS equipment that he used had to be paid back to the NHS. All above board.  

 

Roger

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