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Gates Barricade Fuel Hose: the ‘VuVuZela’ returns!


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19 hours ago, stuart said:

Here you go this is what you need Gates Barricade R14

If you want the full spec its here Gates Barricade

Stuart.

 

19 minutes ago, astontr6 said:

I did the same. The problem here in the UK it seems to be difficult to obtain cut lengths. I do not want a 50m reel? I still believe that there is an under counter deal between Gates and European Suppliers not to promote their product here in Europe and we will not in the US?

Bruce.

Ordered a 4.6m length as recommended by Stuart above and have just spoken to THINK Automotive https://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Hoses--Pipes---Fittings.html who have BSP fittings in stock but happy to crimp those I supply when they eventually reopen post mid-April.

Cheers, Andrew

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17 minutes ago, Andrew Smith said:

 

 

Ordered a 4.6m length as recommended by Stuart above and have just spoken to THINK Automotive https://www.thinkauto.com/acatalog/Hoses--Pipes---Fittings.html who have BSP fittings in stock but happy to crimp those I supply when they eventually reopen post mid-April.

Cheers, Andrew

Spectrum Hose are open in High Wycombe, and they have a vast supply of end fittings, are well known in the automotive field. That's where I go for the last 30 years. They are good for oil cooler hoses as well and offer a German hose for petrol applications like E5/E10.

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35 minutes ago, stuart said:

If you read the link info properly youll see its actually a 4.6mtr roll so between 2 or 3 of you that`ll account for it with a bit spare.

Stuart.

I put my hands up Stuart! I that wrong?

Bruce.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, I replaced the S/S pump to PRV hose with Gates Barricade 27348 (thanks Stuart) a few weeks ago, but all it did was change the resonance frequency to a higher pitch :huh: time to look elsewhere in the system. 

The whole system front to back is Prestige (fitted in 2004) so had a good chat with Carl at TR Trader, ordered the bits I needed and today I finally got round to changing the pre-fuel filter and it seems to rubber hose from the tank to the billet pre-filter has been internally disintegrating due to the ethanol in fuel and clogging the filter which was chokka!  Luckily Carl also sent me a length of Gates tank hose, although the short length from the filter to the pump is 8mm (i/d) increasing to about 10mm so I need to replace that little section before I fire VUX back into life. In fact I'll probably replace the post-filter for a belts 'n' braces approach and good practice. 

Cheers, Andrew

IMG-1033.thumb.JPG.a4c3e42ac673448fafde592154d5bcb3.JPG

 

  

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The pumps have a resonant frequency as do the PRVs. The high pressure flexible hose in combination the first two can result in the racket.

Shorten the pipe or lengthen it, adjust the fuel pressure slightly. It doesn't take much. Twisting it can help.

This is the first time I have come across it with the diaphragm PRV.

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Hi Andrew

My set up looks like yours Carl did it from TR Trader (ex Prestige) I do not not get any resonance at all.

 

Paul1885BD1C-D46E-4CDC-8F5E-E885752A4D18.thumb.jpeg.1549eac8e58c7b2eff24d090fe584fe8.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Andrew Smith said:

Well, I replaced the S/S pump to PRV hose with Gates Barricade 27348 (thanks Stuart) a few weeks ago, but all it did was change the resonance frequency to a higher pitch :huh: time to look elsewhere in the system. 

The whole system front to back is Prestige (fitted in 2004) so had a good chat with Carl at TR Trader, ordered the bits I needed and today I finally got round to changing the pre-fuel filter and it seems to rubber hose from the tank to the billet pre-filter has been internally disintegrating due to the ethanol in fuel and clogging the filter which was chokka!  Luckily Carl also sent me a length of Gates tank hose, although the short length from the filter to the pump is 8mm (i/d) increasing to about 10mm so I need to replace that little section before I fire VUX back into life. In fact I'll probably replace the post-filter for a belts 'n' braces approach and good practice. 

Cheers, Andrew

IMG-1033.thumb.JPG.a4c3e42ac673448fafde592154d5bcb3.JPG

 

  

Hi Andrew,

Are you using the Gates hose with a S/S over braid? The rubber hose run needs slack in it as well?

Bruce.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Andy Moltu said:

The pumps have a resonant frequency as do the PRVs. The high pressure flexible hose in combination the first two can result in the racket.

Shorten the pipe or lengthen it, adjust the fuel pressure slightly. It doesn't take much. Twisting it can help.

This is the first time I have come across it with the diaphragm PRV.

Andy,

I'm content (reasonably) the pump and diaphragm PRV are working as they should as the last time the car was used was in June 2019 when we did our 3-week/3,000 mile Euro tour without any issues whatsoever, since then it's cover no more than 100 trouble free miles, so suspected blocked the pre and post filters after changing the 40"+ braided S/S hose for a shorter 34" rubber Gates hose. Once it's all back together I'll look at other possible causes including checking the pressure at the MU if the resonance is still present.

 

12 hours ago, Paul Hill said:

Hi Andrew

My set up looks like yours Carl did it from TR Trader (ex Prestige) I do not not get any resonance at all.

 

Paul1885BD1C-D46E-4CDC-8F5E-E885752A4D18.thumb.jpeg.1549eac8e58c7b2eff24d090fe584fe8.jpeg

Yes Paul, the same Prestige set-up. Mine was fitted in 2004 by Malcolm (for the PO), when was yours fitted and if possible could you please take a photo of the short hose connecting the billet pre-filter outlet to the pump inlet; it's green on my set-up and seems to be about 20mm o/d?

 

12 hours ago, astontr6 said:

Hi Andrew,

Are you using the Gates hose with a S/S over braid? The rubber hose run needs slack in it as well?

Bruce.

 

No Bruce, it's 36" rubber hose and not S/S braided.

 

Thanks all, Andrew

 

Edited by Andrew Smith
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Looking at the the filter set up, I would be tempted to replace the paper element in the Bullet filter with the coarse mesh one. All it really needs to do is o stop larger chunks of rust/debris from the tank damaging the pump.  The high pressure filter after the pump will sort the fine stuff out and protect the metering unit/injectors.

The paper filter before the pump can act as a restriction and possibly contribute to the pump being noisy and contribute to the resonation.

Interesting to see if your hose swap sorts it. Braided hoses are more resonation prone in my experience.

You could chuck a "cheap" pump on and see if that takes the resonant frequency out of the audible range.

Certainly worth a pressure check, however when the pressure is too high the Bosch pumps tend to sound like a small motorbike revving through the gears. Again sticking PRVs are more of an issue with the Lucas originals.  Still worth a check, if nothing else to make sure that you have the correct pressure at the metering unit end. The diaphragm PRVs are adjustable and whilst pre-set off the car, a few psi out when mounted in a real system can make a difference to running (if not to noise) at full throttle and high revs.

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9463F977-A59F-4804-90ED-16BF1AAF2EFA.thumb.jpeg.d54a1c05ee850c66afb0f0a88c4b93be.jpegHi Andrew mine was fitted last June. The outlet pipe is black as is the pipe between filter and pump. My outlet pipe looks to be a larger diameter then yours, I know Carl said they use an enlarged outlet 8.5mm from the tank

Edited by Paul Hill
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4 hours ago, Andrew Smith said:

Andy,

I'm content (reasonably) the pump and diaphragm PRV are working as they should as the last time the car was used was in June 2019 when we did our 3-week/3,000 mile Euro tour without any issues whatsoever, since then it's cover no more than 100 trouble free miles, so suspected blocked the pre and post filters after changing the 40"+ braided S/S hose for a shorter 34" rubber Gates hose. Once it's all back together I'll look at other possible causes including checking the pressure at the MU if the resonance is still present.

 

Yes Paul, the same Prestige set-up. Mine was fitted in 2004 by Malcolm (for the PO), when was yours fitted and if possible could you please take a photo of the short hose connecting the billet pre-filter outlet to the pump inlet; it's green on my set-up and seems to be about 20mm o/d?

 

 

No Bruce, it's 36" rubber hose and not S/S braided.

 

Thanks all, Andrew

 

Years ago when I went over to a Bosch pump, I assume that you are running a Bosch pump? Bosch Eng. told me that I was only to use a genuine Bosch filter as a pre filter and there was no need for a post filter. This is what I have done and never had trouble even with the Lucas PRV. It was 45 years old when I replaced it with a new KMI one.

Bruce.

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Andy, I replaced the paper filter with a S/S close mesh one yesterday and you're right about paper filters as it seems to me that one had partially imploded and was clogged with rubber debris restricting fuel flow which may have led (or at least contributed) to the resonance. I guess I'll find out. I do have a little used older Moss Bosch setup (pre-filter only) that I can use to eliminate the Prestige Bosch pump being at fault.

Thanks Paul, the photo and confirmation of the larger hose diameter is very useful.

Yes Bruce, the pump and filter is genuine Bosch and not one of the modern 'Bosch type' sold by many usual suspect.

Thanks all, Andrew 

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Hi Andrew

Andy is right the paper filter for the bullit filter is too fine for a pre filter.  The SS filter is 50 microns  whilst the paper one is about 10 microns. It should with a bit of luck get rid of the noise.

Roger

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 5/2/2021 at 3:20 PM, Andrew Smith said:

Well, I replaced the S/S pump to PRV hose with Gates Barricade 27348 (thanks Stuart) a few weeks ago, but all it did was change the resonance frequency to a higher pitch :huh: time to look elsewhere in the system. 

The whole system front to back is Prestige (fitted in 2004) so had a good chat with Carl at TR Trader, ordered the bits I needed and today I finally got round to changing the pre-fuel filter and it seems to rubber hose from the tank to the billet pre-filter has been internally disintegrating due to the ethanol in fuel and clogging the filter which was chokka!  Luckily Carl also sent me a length of Gates tank hose, although the short length from the filter to the pump is 8mm (i/d) increasing to about 10mm so I need to replace that little section before I fire VUX back into life. In fact I'll probably replace the post-filter for a belts 'n' braces approach and good practice. 

Cheers, Andrew

IMG-1033.thumb.JPG.a4c3e42ac673448fafde592154d5bcb3.JPG

 

  

Finally got round to sorting out the resonance and tested the fuel pressure at the MU which was 98 psi, so tweaked it a little to 102,

However, what I have noticed with the Gates Barricade is that it might well be 85% ethanol proof but it doesn't stop it from permeating fuel smells into the boot which is something the 46" S/S Prestige braided hose didn't do.  Anyone else experienced this with the Gates hose?

Cheers, Andrew

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49 minutes ago, Andrew Smith said:

Finally got round to sorting out the resonance and tested the fuel pressure at the MU which was 98 psi, so tweaked it a little to 102,

However, what I have noticed with the Gates Barricade is that it might well be 85% ethanol proof but it doesn't stop it from permeating fuel smells into the boot which is something the 46" S/S Prestige braided hose didn't do.  Anyone else experienced this with the Gates hose?

Cheers, Andrew

Nope, you sure everything is tight? Check all joints with talcum powder.

Stuart.

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36 minutes ago, stuart said:

Nope, you sure everything is tight? Check all joints with talcum powder.

Stuart.

Yep, pretty sure they're all tight but will double check with the talc.

Cheers, Andrew

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3 hours ago, Andrew Smith said:

Finally got round to sorting out the resonance and tested the fuel pressure at the MU which was 98 psi, so tweaked it a little to 102,

However, what I have noticed with the Gates Barricade is that it might well be 85% ethanol proof but it doesn't stop it from permeating fuel smells into the boot which is something the 46" S/S Prestige braided hose didn't do.  Anyone else experienced this with the Gates hose?

Cheers, Andrew

I've had no problem with Barricade. Have you done the talcum powder test for small leaks? Note a petrol smell could probably be caused by a leak too small for the talcum powder test to detect- but its a good start.

 

Edited by Mike C
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Mine still smellt a bit in the boot too Andrew.

I have installed the barricade hose on the pump discharge side only, suction line is also Gates but not barricade because the barricade is not supplied in larger diameters. Another possibility is the fuel filler hose between tank and body or the rubber 3/16” pieces for the MU return line. Have not done the talcum powder test, so I will have to start with that.
Waldi

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