Late TR4 Seat Refurb Help

[RMP NC]

Tried this on another forum but got little reply.  Hoping my British cousins might have better info.

I see multiple decent 4A instructions for seat rebuilding, a lot of which is same as TR4 (frame, webbing, etc) all of which I’ve done but one key part I can't figure is if there is glue between foam and cover. Do you glue the back cover edges near the raised sides to the foam like with the 4A? Doubt the bottom needs it being flat.  I’ve figured out a lot of the other steps like gluing the foam to the frame, etc but can see nothing on this question for late TR4.  There are YouTube videos of EARLY TR4 recovers but they are not helpful for a late seat. 

So, are there any LATER TR4 seat refurb instructions or any helpful tips about this out there?  

Thanks 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by RMP NC

[Jase]

Sorry, I can't help with the TR4 but when I did my Spitfire I was advised to glue the cover to the foam. I'm sure an expert will be along soon though.

[mikeh]

Hi,

You have a PM

Regards

Mike

[fezzsarecool]

hello RMP 

i do recall that moto-build ltd  of Egham used to sell the seat covers for the late tr4 seats , they look similar to the herald ones ,

they might be able to help , worth giving them a email ,

[Jase]

I'm surprised that there has been no further feedback here?

[RMP NC]

MikeH did PM me some helpful hints as to what he has done.  Great advice.  By the way I do plan to attach the cover back to the foam.  Worst case I have to pull it all apart later and go to plan B or C.

I was surprised there is no specific set of TR4 instructions out there for late TR4. 

I have been all over Moss where I bought the seats.  They tried but have sort of gone silent now after sending we two sets of 4A instructions and pointing me to early TR4 YouTube videos.  It is an acknowledged gap there I think.  

If you're a 4A or up there are instruction sets.  Moss has a really good TR6 instruction for that taller headrest bucket seat.  That set of instructions cover the whole interior rebuild which is helpful even for a 4 as panels and carpets are so similar.  Just the seats are not the same....

[Jase]

Worth taking photos and posting them up once completed, best of luck.

[RMP NC]

I will try to do just that- I’ll pay it forward.  That will be my contribution for all the good help folks have given me on other topics.

So far i have frames and webbing.  Added extra webbing to make it a bit more stiff and hopefully long lived.  Seat bottom webbing is in too.  Foam is glued to the frames.  Working on covers now and I’ll explain in a better write up what all I do and how it works.

[RMP NC]

Few pictures of a test fit.  Look about right?

 

 

[bob-menhennett]

Looks like a top notch job to me. Well done so far.With the main seat covers done, the Seat backing card should be easy enough. Remember that they are " handed  " .The straighter side in board whilst the slightly curved part of the seat is to the outside of the car. To avoid tearing the material , I put a smear of vaseline where the clips go, so that they slide over.

Once in place your wipe off any excess. 

Are you planning to fix the peg  part no 552570 to the passenger side seat. It's only relevant if you've got a tonneau cover to fit to the car. There is a " tail " of material  that dangles down. Lift the dot fixing at the bottom. If you're driving the car solo with the driver's side open , passenger side covered ,the tail is clipped to the side of the passenger seat to stop gusts of wind billowing up the tonneau. The "tie down " arrangement keeps it taunt. It keeps things a bit warmer in the car on a chillier Autumn day or during the Fall as you would say across the pond.

Easier to " find" the hole in the steel frame before the back goes on. Piece  neatly with a sharp pointy implement. Mark the location with a match stick or similar until you can screw the peg in.

Good luck with it , Bob ( owner of an ex USA  TR4 )

[RMP NC]

Ah!.  The peg part no 552570 .  I wandered what that was.  First time I heard about it was just now with your post.  I will add it. 

I had two donor sets of seats.  One set of seats had it and the other did not.  I wondered what that silver post or peg was for, thought it some amateur add on for something.

This shows the peg on the seat and after I just took it off.

 

[Bfg]

On 3/1/2021 at 6:02 PM, bob-menhennett said:

the peg  part no 552570 to the passenger side seat. It's only relevant if you've got a tonneau cover to fit to the car. There is a " tail " of material  that dangles down. Lift the dot fixing at the bottom. If you're driving the car solo with the driver's side open , passenger side covered ,the tail is clipped to the side of the passenger seat to stop gusts of wind billowing up the tonneau. The "tie down " arrangement keeps it taunt. It keeps things a bit warmer in the car on a chillier Autumn day or during the Fall as you would say across the pond.

I'd never spotted that before nor heard of it but as I'm just looking for a tonneau its pertinent. 

Thanks Bob,

Pete

[Jase]

Work looks fantastic, are you gluing the cover to the foam?

[bob-menhennett]

Pete , Your welcome .I spent months researching that many years ago so thought I'd pass it onto RMP NC and

everyone else.

My post was 1.3.2021 but in the "quote box " it has emerged as 3.1.2021 ? How does the system recognise

that RMP NC lives in North Carolina. I know that the recognition is not correct but one of our computer techies

will enlighten us. American software ? Stay safe folks.  Bob

[RMP NC]

 

I ended up not putting glue on the cover/foam area.  It had been suggested to use Velcro strip in an ingenious way between the foam and the cover and it would work to fix my issue I am sure.  But before I did that, I wanted to give it a go without that complexity.  Essentially I wanted to keep it as simple as I could.   Important to be patient and diligent to work the cover various ways as it does not just fall together.  This is very much about persuading the cover and foam each to adapt to accept the other in the way you want.  

First, definitely glue the foam to the frame so it holds tight and does not move about.  Make sure the covers are warm by putting them in the sun or using a hairdryer, etc. to heat them up a bit.

Seat bottom was dead easy. Turn seat bottom cover inside out, then insert the rear spring through the cover and attach spring to the frame.  Then return the cover to the correct side out as you pull it down over the seat foam.  You then stretch sides and temporarily clip to the frame.  

For the top, glue the foam to the frame with the foam sitting tightly on top of the seat bottom and centered on the fame side to side.  As before place the cover inside out against the foam and pull it right side out over the foam. If your foam is as large as the pieces I had (Rimmer Bros version), there will be a big gap at the top where the seat meets the foam - essentially the cover won't come all the way down on the top fitting the foam as it starts.  Pull the tail of the top cover back through the seat back seat bottom.  Generally stretch and pull around a little on the sides and bottom to loosen it up and remove some of the gaps.  No need to attach anything at this point. 

Key step before you do much more is to pull down and temporarily attach the sides of the back cover to the bottom of the frame.  This is the part that comes down and overlaps the seat bottom cover a bit on the sides.  Ultimately you will put on the larger circular clip there to hold those but don't fit them right away.  Temporarily clip the sides there with large paper binder clip or something similar.  Now you can pull the top and sides a bit back over the frame and temporarily attach them.  You can also then pull on that tail that is sticking between the bottom and top covers.  Pull that and temporarily attach to the frame on the seat bottom.  This is where the back starts to take the shape of the foam better.  The next part is more art than science - you have to pull and attach then look at the cover, see where it is loose or seems over-pulled and adjust. Take your time and do it maybe over a couple days a hour or two at time so you keep your patience and don't get frustrated.  My problem was that it seemed I could not get the center of the seat back cover to fit tightly against the foam.  It seemed the cover wanted to "bridge" across the two foam sides making a gap between foam and cover.  But pulling from the top and the bottom of the cover helps that.  Also, let it sit a day or two in a temporarily clipped position even if it is not finished and come back to it.  I think you will see that it gets better after it sits as it starts to adapt to the seat foam.  Eventually it will take more of a desirable shape as you get that right combination of tension on top, bottom and sides.  After it is where you want it, you add more of the clips and trim the extra vinyl.  My advice is leave as much material as you can, cut as little from the covers as you can just in case you must revert and loosen it or something.

After the covers are on you place the holes in the cover for the hard shell back piece and fit those to the seats.  Then attach the flaps on the bottom of the hard shell back cover to the bottom of the seat frame and put on the various seat plastic feet, etc.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by RMP NC

[signalredshaker]

Brilliant and very helpful post. Your seats look very good. Did you obtain your materials  from a UK supplier?

It looks like they aren't leather but I cant be sure as its very difficult to tell.

James

[RMP NC]

The foam and webbing came from Rimmer Bros.  The covers were Moss Motors, made in USA  I believe.  Got a hand signed card form the lady who supposedly sewed them.  The way the Moss people talked about the seats when I checked on status was that they were being made up locally with the supplier's pandemic era skeleton staff.  I ordered the Moss set for no other reason than Moss had a 15% sale on at the time of ordering if you ordered $1500 or more.  So I put in a order that hit the mark and got the discount.  Also the shipping for bulk items from the UK generally kills the advantage in pricing for Rimmer Bros.  Usually Rimmer Bros. are cheaper and often better stocked than Moss (at least during the pandemic time I've been buying up parts).  And in my case I tried ordering everything for the seats from Moss to get the discount sale price and save on shipping.  I waited over a month for the seats to be sent but got them.  I gave up after almost two months waiting on the Moss foam which they said had to come to them from the UK and paid the over $100 shipping for a Rimmer foam set that sold for 199 UK Pounds.  

The Moss seat covers are leather which is why I had to wait.  Vinyl was in stock.  These have vinyl sides as normal and seem very well made to me. The vinyl is much thicker than the stock 50 year old vinyl but am sure time, heat and sun makes the vinyl shrink and harden.   The leather seems the right balance between being rugged and soft.  It is a bit stiff right now but will wear in nicely over time with use I think.  I did buy more webbing than just the Rimmer kit.  The Rimmer kit was perfect by the way.  Had a foot left over after the procedure.  But I got another 2" wide roll from a US supplier which I used to augment the webbing in the frames, essentially doubling it.  I am a larger than average man as are my other male family members and I figure over time the seats would thank me for the extra strength/ability to hold.  I actually put two webbing strips across the rubber seat bottom on the driver seat as I figure that seat will catch 75% or more of the weight wear over time.  

The Moss set used a hard processed wood board for the seat back.  It was not pre-curved and is thicker than the original cardboard type boards I took off.  I struggled just a bit to get those new back boards to go on and to bend and hold but did get both to go on and stay - they kept popping out on one side or the other - fix one side and the other comes out.  I may end up having to take that all a part and cut the vinyl more fully around the six holes in the seat frame that receive the push-in fasteners so that the fasteners can go in more deeply/fully.  Also I may have to spread the fasteners open a bit more to give them more grip on the frame holes as I was reusing old ones and they may be collapsed/fatigued a bit after 50 years.  I believe over time the board will adapt more to the bend in the seat.

Oh, I would have ordered a top cover set from Moss too but they only sell the top kit with a full interior kit with door cards, side cards, etc.  Fortunately or unfortunately depending how you look at it I have a great original set of door cards and side cards, so I just needed the top cover set.  Again, Rimmer had the separately orderable and in stock but the shipping was a 1/3 price increase.  So I ordered that from the The Roadster Factory in the USA who also had a sale on at that time and had a good price.  I am still waiting on that after 3 months.  Fortunately I don't need it yet so I am ok to continue to wait.