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Bronze bearing carrier query


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Purchased a bronze carrier and as normal doesn’t fit , dropped off at machine shop this morning . Question  do these  bronze carriers need the small pin to stop it spinning ? If so I can get the shop to drill while they have it.

Cheers Mark

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Hi Mark,

the original carrier was steel and it had a pin to stop it rotating. They are not self lubricating so spinning would not be good.

The steel carriers work perfectly well.

The Bronze (dark gold in colour) carrier is self lubricating but although it didnt have a pin it did have a a depressed area of the flange that stopped it rotating.

So a pin would be a good idea.

If you have a light gold coloured carrier it may be Brass. This is not good with the pins on the forks - will be digging in. see pic

 

Roger

P1030171a.jpg

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59 minutes ago, Mark69 said:

Purchased a bronze carrier and as normal doesn’t fit , dropped off at machine shop this morning . Question  do these  bronze carriers need the small pin to stop it spinning ? If so I can get the shop to drill while they have it.

Cheers Mark

I purchased a Genuine Bronze carrier 4 years ago from Revington as the Moss ones were made from BRASS, not a bearing metal. Once again this shows Moss's engineering forte!!! Had the usual ruck there and they with drew their stock? Mine now has been in use for 4 years, the sticky clutch has gone which plagued me for 40 years in traffic jams. Mine did not have the stop pin fitted, I was told it was not required. But I did use the saloon car slippers  blocks instead of the round pins as recommended by ORS.

Bruce.

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7 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Mark,

the original carrier was steel and it had a pin to stop it rotating. They are not self lubricating so spinning would not be good.

The steel carriers work perfectly well.

The Bronze (dark gold in colour) carrier is self lubricating but although it didnt have a pin it did have a a depressed area of the flange that stopped it rotating.

So a pin would be a good idea.

If you have a light gold coloured carrier it may be Brass. This is not good with the pins on the forks - will be digging in. see pic

 

Roger

P1030171a.jpg

That's why ORS told me to use the Saloon Car slipper blocks???.

Bruce.

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8 minutes ago, Kevo_6 said:

No pin in my Revington bronze carrier and it’s been great for the last 5-6 years.

Hi Kev,

can you remember if your Revington Bronze carrier had a depression on the rear flange to stop rotation. ?

 

Roger

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi Kev,

can you remember if your Revington Bronze carrier had a depression on the rear flange to stop rotation. ?

 

Roger

My Revington Bronze Carrier did not have a depression on the rear flange. I had to open up the groove where the slipper blocks fit in by 0.002" for running clearance. In my opinion you get too much rock when using the pins, with the slippers its a much more solid affair which centralises the thrust bearing line of attack on the clutch plate. You get much more feel when feeding in the clutch. My clutch has been tested in London traffic many times. I have had the comment from another TR owner what have you done to your clutch, mine is not like that? Yours is very smooth.

Bruce. 

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4 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Kev,

can you remember if your Revington Bronze carrier had a depression on the rear flange to stop rotation. ?

 

Roger

Hi Roger, no depression on my flange!

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36 minutes ago, Mark69 said:

0D108D0D-920C-4DFE-9952-4BC5F2C37B29.thumb.jpeg.38b1de26446d794dc9206908fecfd265.jpeg 
Looks like I’ve been duped again, I take it from the colour this might well be brass. 
Thanks for all the info chaps.

Mark.

Looks like a brass one to me Mark.

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+1 almost certainly brass. The bronze ones are a lot browner than that. 

1587065079_bearing.jpg.3fd5660fe23a7773232f02271418fbde.jpg

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5 hours ago, astontr6 said:

I purchased a Genuine Bronze carrier 4 years ago from Revington as the Moss ones were made from BRASS, not a bearing metal. Once again this shows Moss's engineering forte!!! Had the usual ruck there and they with drew their stock? Mine now has been in use for 4 years, the sticky clutch has gone which plagued me for 40 years in traffic jams. Mine did not have the stop pin fitted, I was told it was not required. But I did use the saloon car slippers  blocks instead of the round pins as recommended by ORS.

Bruce.

Hi Bruce/all

I'm just about to mate the Gearbox to the engine hopefully this weekend for the first time. As it stands I have an original Laycock clutch/cover and release bearing and a bronze carrier from Revington purchased a few months ago in preparation and has no provision for a pin.

The clutch modified fork/shaft and pins are new std round pins. Can anyone explain what the "saloon car slipper block" are and is it worth me fitting these now if there is an advantage to be had.

Thanks

Andy

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The force of the pins (and friction) is not only guided on 2 single points in the carrier, they slide in holes in the pads and this way on a much larger surface.

You can buy this for our TRs ready to use at Germany, we had this only some time ago already, anywhere on the big heap now.

This is the link again  https://racinggreen.one/kupplung/

Scroll down to Ausrücklager Set

 

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19 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Andy have a look here  here

The square pad fits the pin on the fork - the carrier pad gap may need opening.

 

Roger

Thanks Roger and Marco 

I see the potential advantage now. Would the gap require a lathe to skim if required or thinking of an easier option could the blocks be slightly reduced to fit the groove at the expense of slightly reducing the surface area.

Andy

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11 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Roger and Marco 

I see the potential advantage now. Would the gap require a lathe to skim if required or thinking of an easier option could the blocks be slightly reduced to fit the groove at the expense of slightly reducing the surface area.

Andy

It is easier to open up the groove on a lathe than having to use a surface grinder on the slippers. If you can find a m/c shop that has one.? Roger has described what they are, they are or were mentioned in the Moss TR6 catalogue and what to do to to fit them. I tried to attach a photo of this system but was unable to do. 

Bruce.

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11 hours ago, Z320 said:

The force of the pins (and friction) is not only guided on 2 single points in the carrier, they slide in holes in the pads and this way on a much larger surface.

You can buy this for our TRs ready to use at Germany, we had this only some time ago already, anywhere on the big heap now.

This is the link again  https://racinggreen.one/kupplung/

Scroll down to Ausrücklager Set

 

I have looked at that system and make a couple of points:

1) The blocks are too small.

2) The thrust bearing which is inserted into the bearing carrier looks to me to be the INA/ Luke design which they were unable to sell in the UK. Which was a much better design than the RHP bearing. Bearing in mind that Luke bought Laycock here in the UK but that design is used in the USA for TR's, using Luke clutches but not here?

Bruce.

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16 hours ago, Mark69 said:

0D108D0D-920C-4DFE-9952-4BC5F2C37B29.thumb.jpeg.38b1de26446d794dc9206908fecfd265.jpeg 
Looks like I’ve been duped again, I take it from the colour this might well be brass. 
Thanks for all the info chaps.

Mark.

Who supplied it Mark so people know not to buy one from them.

Stuart.

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Hi Stuart,

I know that Moss did (and may still do) sell the Brass carrier.

Looking at their WebCat they show a steel carrier for the TR4A which would be correct.

For the TR6 they show a steel and a 'Bronze' carrier. However the colour looks very much like  Brass. There are many Brass alloys and this may be a softer one.

For the TR2/3 it shows a Bronze carrier (same pic as the TR6) but it has a different number to the TR6 -odd!!!

 

Roger

 

 

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Just now, RogerH said:

For the TR2/3 it shows a Bronze carrier (same pic as the TR6) but it has a different number to the TR6 -odd!!!

 

Roger

 

 

Thats because it is different as the bearing it holds is different too.

Stuart.

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2 minutes ago, stuart said:

Thats because it is different as the bearing it holds is different too.

Stuart.

Of course it is - stupid me. 

It has the flat face bearing bearing for the three finger pressure plate.

Thanks Stuart.

 

Roger

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1 hour ago, Z320 said:

I struggled on "Luke" for some time,

you mean the producer "LuK"?

You are right! Sorry for the typo! I spoke directly to LuK here in the UK, they do not do a TR6 clutch here in the UK as they could not sell them when they did? Which is strange as they were a direct copy of the OEM Laycock type which is the favoured one. They only produce the Laycock type in the USA for the Roadster Factory.

Bruce.

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