John Morrison Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Heard about this incident last week on the local news, but more detail was on this mornings BBC Breakfast. I listened, and was so incensed I couldn't speak. Week last Friday week, Patterdale Mountain Rescue Team were called out, at night, to find one of two campers on kIrkstone Pass. These two chaps, apparently one from Liverpool and the other from Leicester, to whom lockdown does not apply, had journeyed half the length of the country to camp. One developed chest pains and called for help. Whilst attempting too find these two, one member of the mountain rescue team, slipped and fell 150M, sustaining life changing injuries, massive facial fractures and a broken back. Obviously he is still intensive care, and is facing a very long road to recovery, and life in a wheelchair, his name is Chris Lewis, and he is just 60. Our intrepid campers got fined £200 for breaking lockdown, I invite you to go and look at this report, and the team members, obviously heartbroken with these events, and as one contributor said, it shouldn't have happened, they should never have been there. What a tragedy, because of Selfish, Stupid people. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Sorry to be at odds with your view John - but looking at it logically, lockdown has nothing to do with this very unfortunate event. The rescuer did not fall just because someone broke lockdown, he fell because someone on the hill got into trouble. If there were no lockdown the people would still have been there and in need of rescue and in fact there may have been many more such incidents over the past year because there would be more people up there. To remove the risk to Mountain Rescue it would be necessary to ban people from ever going hill-walking at any time. Edited February 17, 2021 by RobH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I hope Chris recovers as best as possible. Sadly accidents happen whether created by stupidity or fate. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 17 minutes ago, RobH said: To remove the risk to Mountain Rescue it would be necessary to ban people from ever going hill-walking at any time. Sorry but I’m with John on this. the lock down is precisely what you say it’s a ban for non ESSENTIAL travel. if they had followed the rules they wouldn’t have been there! Travel bans are not only to protect people from COVID transmission but to protect the NHS from additional stresses of cases this criminal action to travel for a holiday and mixing households has resulted in 2 additional hospital cases at least one is long term and intensive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
openroad Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 There was a Mountain Rescue Article on a Tv Programme this week, saying that they have as busy during Lockdown. WTF Conrad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hamish said: Sorry but I’m with John on this. the lock down is precisely what you say it’s a ban for non ESSENTIAL travel. if they had followed the rules they wouldn’t have been there! Travel bans are not only to protect people from COVID transmission but to protect the NHS from additional stresses of cases this criminal action to travel for a holiday and mixing households has resulted in 2 additional hospital cases at least one is long term and intensive. +1 Some people have no idea just what their stupidity is exposing others to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 People in Mountain Rescue do it for nothing, because they see it as a service to support our community. When one of them suffers disaster, our community should do what is needed to support them. Chris Lewis faces a long recovery and a wheel chair for life, but apparently has already spoken of a chair that will let him get back on the hills. The Lake District Search and Mountain Rescue Association has started a Fund to help him do that and support his other needs. Please consider contributing. https://www.justgiving.com/campaign/Chris-Lewis-Support-Fund-LDSAMRA-Patterdale-MRT?experiments=b2c_040_frp_trust_proposition_bar&successType=StaticDonateButtonClick&utm_medium=socpledgemobile&utm_content=Chris-Lewis-Support-Fund-LDSAMRA-Patterdale-MRT%3Fexperiments%3Db2c_040_frp_trust_proposition_bar&utm_campaign=post-pledge-mobile&utm_term=Y7NWpXGYR&fbclid=IwAR2XvQ2gKQAGXLOL2OUjTbLhy0lAO7r_ZO97Q6TTxBl3TTa8ncDSb613gZE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, john.r.davies said: People in Mountain Rescue do it for nothing, because they see it as a service to support our community. When one of them suffers disaster, our community should do what is needed to support them. Chris Lewis faces a long recovery and a wheel chair for life, but apparently has already spoken of a chair that will let him get back on the hills. The Lake District Search and Mountain Rescue Association has started a Fund to help him do that and support his other needs. Please consider contributing. https://www.justgiving.com/campaign/Chris-Lewis-Support-Fund-LDSAMRA-Patterdale-MRT?experiments=b2c_040_frp_trust_proposition_bar&successType=StaticDonateButtonClick&utm_medium=socpledgemobile&utm_content=Chris-Lewis-Support-Fund-LDSAMRA-Patterdale-MRT%3Fexperiments%3Db2c_040_frp_trust_proposition_bar&utm_campaign=post-pledge-mobile&utm_term=Y7NWpXGYR&fbclid=IwAR2XvQ2gKQAGXLOL2OUjTbLhy0lAO7r_ZO97Q6TTxBl3TTa8ncDSb613gZE Done. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Done and I hope Chris does make the best possible recovery. But I still maintain there is no direct link to lockdown. To be consistent you would have to label everyone as "cretinous and selfish" who ever goes up a hill, or in fact who ever does anything remotely risky including motorsport, and who therefore might require emergency assistance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod1883 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'm also with John M, Hamish and Iain on this. These two idiots put others in danger unnecessarily and illegally. Yes of course a similar accident could have happened in 'normal' times when involved in a legitimate rescue - but these two should not have been there and were, presumably, (wild?) camping illegally. Donated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 +1. If they hadn't been on the mountain, they wouldn't have needed a rescue team, adn the volunteer wouldn't have fallen. Completely unnecessary and selfish. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Nothing illegal about wild camping! Except if it involves trespass, which is not a crime but a civil law matter, or when it involves travel in the current lockdown. And as long as it is 'no-trace' camping, but thoughtless people don't consider that. The British Mountaineering Council and the National Parks offer advice on how to wild camp well, EG https://www.thebmc.co.uk/wild-camping-worries Edited February 17, 2021 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike ellis Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, john.r.davies said: Nothing illegal about wild camping! Except if it involves trespass, which is not a crime but a civil law matter, Perhaps not for much longer https://thebmc.co.uk/law-of-trespass-could-change Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Thank you, Mike! I hadn't seen that! Whatever happened to the Common Land? Oh, yes, snatched away in the Enclosure Acts 1604-1914! Edited February 17, 2021 by john.r.davies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod1883 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, john.r.davies said: Nothing illegal about wild camping! Except if it involves trespass, which is not a crime but a civil law matter, or when it involves travel in the current lockdown. And as long as it is 'no-trace' camping, but thoughtless people don't consider that. The British Mountaineering Council and the National Parks offer advice on how to wild camp well, EG https://www.thebmc.co.uk/wild-camping-worries True, in normal times and with the caveats that you state John - but illegal in the current Covid 'essential journey only' situation.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Rod1883 said: True, in normal times and with the caveats that you state John - but illegal in the current Covid 'essential journey only' situation.... +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnG Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 12 hours ago, RobH said: Sorry to be at odds with your view John - but looking at it logically, lockdown has nothing to do with this very unfortunate event. The rescuer did not fall just because someone broke lockdown, he fell because someone on the hill got into trouble. If there were no lockdown the people would still have been there and in need of rescue and in fact there may have been many more such incidents over the past year because there would be more people up there. To remove the risk to Mountain Rescue it would be necessary to ban people from ever going hill-walking at any time. My penneth Rob . . . . In this instance, had the 2 campers observed the current law regarding travel and association restrictions, they would not have been there. Had they not been there, the mountain rescue team would not have been called out to rescue them. Others, maybe, but, not these 2. Thus, it has everything to do with both lockdown and selfish people. Had they not been there, the rescue climber would be at home, safe, with his family. He was injured because he was there, trying to rescue someone who should not have been on the mountain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Well said John. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I understand what you are saying John but the argument comes more from emotion than from logic. Yes if no-one climbs hills, no-one needs rescue. However, if there was no lockdown and they had made the same trip it would still have happened. Breaking lockdown was not the cause, at most it was an aggravating factor. As I said - the only way to prevent such accidents is to stop anyone climbing hills. Are you going to advocate that once the lockdown is over? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I can see both sides to this crazy event. In fact there are many sides to this. However I feel you should all be praying for the chaps good recovery. At present you are looking for somebody to blame for a very unfortunate accident. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Absolutely Roger. Well put. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) . Edited February 17, 2021 by Hamish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 My penny worth, If these two individuals weren’t there, obviously Chris wouldn’t have had the accident, and under lockdown one could reasonably conclude they shouldn’t have been there. They might actually suggest that climbing is there chosen form of exercise and Cumbria is the closes/most local venue to take that exercise. RobH has a point, Lockdown wasn’t the cause, it was an accident. because a group of people have volunteered, to help those that get into difficulty doing something where there is risk. Unless we ban people doing risky activities others will also be put at risk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 This topic has been debated extensively on another forum that I follow. I had the privilege of doing some joint training with the Patterdale MRT some years back and they are a hugely committed team. They will all be hurting, and I'm sure we're all deeply grateful for the efforts of these volunteers, year after year. A large proportion of the shouts they respond to are where members of the public have acted unwisely to varying degrees, the teams accept that. On the question of responsibility and culpability in this particular case I'm not going to comment and everyone will form their own view on the morality. But it can be useful to ask ourselves what is the purpose of the coronavirus regulations? Clearly they are intended by Parliament to prevent disease infection, but they weren't enacted to prevent accidents, whether on the roads, mountains or anywhere else. If they do achieve that, well and good but that's incidental. The purpose of a law is important because it's a starting point for determining culpability and seriousness in the circumstances of the offending behaviour under consideration. That's important because as a general principle we do not punish people more severely for outcomes that were only an incidental result of the offence they are charged with rather than of the essence of the offence. If I broke lockdown to go for a drive, was stopped by a police officer while out and infected him/her, I would fully expect my prosecution under the coronavirus regs to be treated as more serious. On the other hand, if I'd carelessly hit a police car and caused injury, I would not expect my lockdown breach to aggravate a careless driving charge (I'd fully expect to also receive a coronavirus regs ticket of course, but that's a separate matter). Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Accident? Define could it have been avoided?answer yes what part of stupid irresponsible do they not understand there actions should live with them for life but that is not enough imho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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