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Calling all TR Archaeologists


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1 hour ago, Rod1883 said:

Thanks Sue.

I too will watch. I wonder what Julian's view is - I 'm not sure he always sees eye to eye with Mike Parker Pearson?

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Julian didn’t agree much with Mike PP, I have already seen that other Archeologists don’t agree either. It will be interesting to make our own minds up though.

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I seem to recall reading quite recently that archaeologists had found the site from which the really huge stones had come - and that it was only some 15-20 miles north of Stonehenge in the Savernake Forest.  That would make more sense, as shifting objects that large is a mammoth task.  The evidence was to do with the exact nature of the stones at Stonehenge and in the Forest.

This could become as big a spat as that going on north of the Border!

Ian Cornish

 

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It has been known since at least the 1920s that the smaller 'bluestones' came from Preseli in Wales and the large sandstone sarsens from the Marlborough downs.  All they are arguing about currently is the exact location of the sources. 

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1 hour ago, ianc said:

I seem to recall reading quite recently that archaeologists had found the site from which the really huge stones had come - and that it was only some 15-20 miles north of Stonehenge in the Savernake Forest.  That would make more sense, as shifting objects that large is a mammoth task.  The evidence was to do with the exact nature of the stones at Stonehenge and in the Forest.

This could become as big a spat as that going on north of the Border!

Ian Cornish

 

Yep, a Mammoth would have been handy...

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Just watched it, good program, it was nice to see the Ancient Technology Center is still doing that kind of thing.

Just caught a glimpse of our "holiday home" in the background

Bob.

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34 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Just watched it, good program, it was nice to see the Ancient Technology Center is still doing that kind of thing.

Just caught a glimpse of our "holiday home" in the background

Bob.

The Viking Longhouse, I missed that but did sleep in it.

The location of the Blue Stones in The Presili Hills was shown to Roger and I plus Cat Tunnadine by Ollie ( Ian from the Traws Cambria  TR Group). a good few years ago on a Welsh Weekend. Boy that was a spirited ride.....!

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43 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Just watched it, good program, it was nice to see the Ancient Technology Center is still doing that kind of thing.

Just caught a glimpse of our "holiday home" in the background

Bob.

Indeed - I nearly yelled "I've been there!!" :)

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Listening too the trail for it yesterday morning on R4 I thought the same thing about Julian, would have been a laugh to be a fly on the wall in his house if he was watching it!

Stuart.

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The location of the Blue Stones in The Presili Hills was shown to Roger and I plus Cat Tunnadine by Ollie ( Ian from the Traws Cambria  TR Group). a good few years ago on a Welsh Weekend. Boy that was a spirited ride.....!

Yeah, this part of Pembrokeshire is Ollie's back yard and knowing him (through TR's for nearly 30 years) I would say that any drive with him is a spirited ride!

Ray

 

 

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Convinced me re origin of the stones. If they are representations of ancestors - grave stones - I suppose there is motivation for moving them, that would not otherwise make sense. Mind you Wales is expert at selling stone: slate for instance.

The chinese moved large stones in winter slid on ice-tracks.

 

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This was the science that impressed me - using zircon chemical identities  to find the outcrops.https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251565323_Stonehenge_rhyolitic_bluestone_sources_and_the_application_of_zircon_chemistry_as_a_new_tool_for_provenancing_rhyolitic_lithics

As to why the bluestones were moved amounts to trying to explain behaviour of long dead ancestors, when we cant even explain behaviours of modern societies. A modern equivalent might be to ask why in the UK a new cathedral hasnt been built for 50 years? The answer is surely complex enough to defy simplistic explanation. Yet for SH all we can ever expect from surviving artefacts, however smart the science applied, will be simplistic interpretations. I'm happy to leave archaeologists to argue amongst themselves !

Peter

 

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45 minutes ago, Peter Cobbold said:

As to why the bluestones were moved amounts to trying to explain behaviour of long dead ancestors, when we cant even explain behaviours of modern societies. A modern equivalent might be to ask why in the UK a new cathedral hasnt been built for 50 years? The answer is surely complex enough to defy simplistic explanation. Yet for SH all we can ever expect from surviving artefacts, however smart the science applied, will be simplistic interpretations. I'm happy to leave archaeologists to argue amongst themselves !

A jump of imagination too far Peter.  The zircon thing may point to the origin of the rock. Everything after that is just wild speculation with no science attached.   Short of talking to the people who did it we have absolutely no way of knowing the motives or methods.   As Mark Twain said:

“There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

Edited by RobH
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2 hours ago, RobH said:

A jump of imagination too far Peter.  The zircon thing may point to the origin of the rock. Everything after that is just wild speculation with no science attached.   Short of talking to the people who did it we have absolutely no way of knowing the motives or methods.   As Mark Twain said:

“There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.”

Exactly so Rob. I imagine archaeologists 5000 years in the future excavating the remains of Paddy's Wigwam and noting that hundreds of mosques were built contemporaneously. And concluding this island underwent a religious conversion led by ( from his memorial plaque ) Stephen Hawking.

Peter

Not sure MT got science right: its 'facts' can be labile.

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