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TR6 Rear Brake system. When replacing slave cylinder put a file in your tool box.


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Back plate = hole for hand brake lever 1.275 x 0.311.  

Handbrake lever 0.25 thick no problem Good.

 

Back plate hole for brake cylinder 1.45 x 0.65

Brake cylinder 0.73 BAD reason, moulding injection points have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

Braked cylinder jaws for handbrake lever 0.236.

Handbrake lever 0.25 thick BAD moulding not accurate.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

 

Locking plates when assembled have a hole that is 0.9055 long.

Brake cylinder dimension 0.964 BAD reason moulding injection seams have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

These parts are common to Rimmer and Moss, so beware.

The manufacturer is saving money by doing away with the grinding after removing the form from the mould.

It seems that once again the two suppliers do not do a spot check on their parts to see if they are OK. Let’s save money on the QA bit and let the customer do it. If he complains give him the money back, this way it is cheaper.

How often have I heard from the sales personnel “Well the supplier said it was ok” “He is contracted to do checks.”

Question? “Have you done a spot check to see if he is complying with his contract?” “Oh I don’t think we do.”

This is not the first time. I bought a set of spring compressors for the front suspension. I complained that they did not fit. Answer was "Of course they do we have sold hundreds." To which I said please do me a favour and go to your exhibition TR6 and try and fit them. If you can fit them, I will buy you a bottle of good Malt as an apology. 3 hours later my phone rang. “Peter you are right they do not fit” “That is strange nobody has ever complained, perhaps nobody has ever used them”

End of story, so beware put a file into your tool box.

 

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1 hour ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

Back plate = hole for hand brake lever 1.275 x 0.311.  

Handbrake lever 0.25 thick no problem Good.

 

Back plate hole for brake cylinder 1.45 x 0.65

Brake cylinder 0.73 BAD reason, moulding injection points have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

Braked cylinder jaws for handbrake lever 0.236.

Handbrake lever 0.25 thick BAD moulding not accurate.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

 

Locking plates when assembled have a hole that is 0.9055 long.

Brake cylinder dimension 0.964 BAD reason moulding injection seams have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions.

 

These parts are common to Rimmer and Moss, so beware.

The manufacturer is saving money by doing away with the grinding after removing the form from the mould.

It seems that once again the two suppliers do not do a spot check on their parts to see if they are OK. Let’s save money on the QA bit and let the customer do it. If he complains give him the money back, this way it is cheaper.

How often have I heard from the sales personnel “Well the supplier said it was ok” “He is contracted to do checks.”

Question? “Have you done a spot check to see if he is complying with his contract?” “Oh I don’t think we do.”

This is not the first time. I bought a set of spring compressors for the front suspension. I complained that they did not fit. Answer was "Of course they do we have sold hundreds." To which I said please do me a favour and go to your exhibition TR6 and try and fit them. If you can fit them, I will buy you a bottle of good Malt as an apology. 3 hours later my phone rang. “Peter you are right they do not fit” “That is strange nobody has ever complained, perhaps nobody has ever used them”

End of story, so beware put a file into your tool box.

 

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the real world of TR quality parts? Many of these faults have been going on for years! It is nothing to find that the same parts were faulty 30 years ago as I have proven a number of times? There are no QA procedures with the main parts suppliers. Customers do the QA but if you complain they now might do something as the Register has now got a fault report system. I hope that you will use it in your case?

Bruce.

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I left the inches or mm signs off because it does not really matter. The main thing is, you can't put a big thing in a small hole. At least I can't.

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1 hour ago, Phil Read said:

Who traines Fettlers nowadays?

Same as always...engineers of various trades, differs for the trade but they always need somebody who can "fettle" (fine fit by altering or removing flashings or rough finishes) making parts that will fit together ...and work.

Mick Richards

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Mick

I am sorry but when were you born, definitely not in the last 2 centuries? You are talking about service and finishing the job, so that when the customer gets it, it works.

I learnt about that from the History channel. :D:rolleyes::P

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Well I'm not over 200 years old !

As always a description from medival english still in use today...but adaptive to what everyday practices are.

 Collins Dictionary ...fettle in British English

(ˈfɛtəl )

VERB (transitive)1. 

to remove (excess moulding material and casting irregularities) from a cast component

2. 

to line or repair (the walls of a furnace)

3.  British dialecta. 

to prepare or arrange (a thing, oneself, etc), esp to put a finishing touch to

b. 

to repair or mend (something)

I guess it still works.

Mick Richards

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I often fettle things in the garage. 
 

and sometimes I p1ss about trying to get something to work or fit. 
 

old English is useful and current in my garage. 

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Mick it may be verbalIy in use but nobody does it. Isn't it terrible that we have to write about such things. A pity that we cannot just buy somethig and use it.

The supplier offers me something stating it will do the job. I agree to the pricing and we make a verbal contract. Afterwards he goes back on his part of the contract by delivering something that does not work. Oh yes, there are lots of laws that cover this. Who has all the hard work and chasing around to get it right. I know of no law that covers my time and expence, when it is a hobby.

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It is happening again. I thought whilst I have drained everything, I could replace the original brake pipes. A long tima ago, I said as I have done it often enough on the saloons I will go down the road and do it the easy way. I bought a complete made up set from our well known firm. Never got round to fitting them. Today trying to fit the pipe going from the back outlet of the master brake cylinder(MC) to the PDWA I found the ferrule (is that the right name for the screw bit?) kept on turning and I could not get it tight. The other end the same. Ok, so I took it out and put the 50 year old one back in It fitted pefectly. Then I checked both agaianst another and found I had the wrong sized thread much too small, I check the paperwork from the supplier. Everything correct except the wrong thread. I now have 2 pipes that go from the MC to the PDWA one has large thread and the partner pipe had a small thread.  With my luck, shoud I take up betting or whatever?:wacko::wacko::wacko:

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Hi Peter,

Brake lines front and rear have different threads in this area. This is to assure that they are correctly connected to the PDWA. Did you check if it works out wenn you swap the lines?
 

Regards Peter.

 

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Peter

No I did not get that far.As the pipes were aready bent, I did not check that. I just put them on the only was they could go.  Strange now that you say it. I wonder if this box of pipes had beeen returned to our supplier and somebody before has started to bend the pipe and did it wrong then put it back in the box. All the other pipes had to be bent.

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Yes just like this. The pipe that was bent was the right hand pipe to fit the MC left hand hole. I thought that is nice they have bent one pipe go show the user how it is done. Silly me. I will now have to go back into the garage (3 miles away and -4F°) and have a very careful look at this kit.

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If you have a brake pipe flaring tool     Get a couple of the correct end fitting.  3/16” pipe with 7/16” thread I think is what you need.

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/brake-fuel-pipe-fittings.html

Peter W

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I have a brake flaring tool that I used lots of times on the saloons. I also have a big roll of copper + (nickel?) brake piping. So I will be a good boy and do what you say. Oh god all over again. I have to get it done because after the Lockdown we have lots of meetings including the Euro meet in Sept.

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I threw the manufactured pipes away and made up new ones they fit perfectly, thanks everybody. If anybody finds out who send a brake line pack back then do me a favour just kick him where it hurts most.

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back to the original issue you posted.

If the body of the replacement wheel cylinders is too large to pass through the back plate of the original TR Girling brake I suggest that the remaker has either never seen an original and has no quality control methods for the pressure die casting of the cylinder body.

 

Did the 3 clips and springs fit OK?

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I think it is even worse, he has never even tried to check it.

If you mean the clips at the back of the Slave cylinder behind the back plate. No the slave cylinder was too big. Quote "

Locking plates when assembled have a hole that is 0.9055 long.

Brake cylinder dimension 0.964 BAD reason moulding injection seams have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions."

I am not sure what you mean with the springs.

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42 minutes ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

I think it is even worse, he has never even tried to check it.

If you mean the clips at the back of the Slave cylinder behind the back plate. No the slave cylinder was too big. Quote "

Locking plates when assembled have a hole that is 0.9055 long.

Brake cylinder dimension 0.964 BAD reason moulding injection seams have not been ground down.

Use your file to get the correct dimensions."

I am not sure what you mean with the springs.

Yes I did mean the spring clips that hold the cylinder in place.

Peter W

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Hi everyone.

It is my lucky day today. I have found out why I could not bleed the rear brakes.

Rear end of the braking system new. New servo (6 months ago), new TRV M/Cyl.

 

Filled up with brake fluid and started at the back end to bleed the new pipelines, nothing no fluid.

OK get out my vacuum tool and suckout the fluid, nothing.

Try the other rear cylinder, nothing.

OK go up front and check if there is fluid coming out of the pipe going to the rear of the car, nothing.

Check if anything is happening at the front pipes,nothing.

OK pressurise the M/Cyl like easy bleed, nothing.

 

OK check if the servo push rod is correctly adjusted. When measuring the system I found the M/Cyl Primary piston was 4 cm :wacko::wacko::wacko: pushed into the casting.

I should have seen this when assembling the M/Cyl to the car. I did not look as I did not expect a original packed item, to have such a defect. My stupidity.

Tried tapping on the casting, nothing.

Tried rapidly tapping the piston, nothing.

Tried pressurising the system like easybleed nothing.

No wonder when pumping the pedal nothing happemed, the servo push rod was touching free air.

I rang up Moss Europe they were very nice and are going to send me a replacement. So next week we will start again

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Glad you found the cause Peter!

its a pain when new parts turn out to be faulty, but better it failed before you were using it in earnest...

steve

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I wonder who will pay me for the time lost?????????? I have spent over 20 hours because of stupidity. Luckly I am a pensioner. So there is no loss of work time i.e. money.

 

Edited by Peter Douglas Winn
one wrong w
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