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Evening all

I have just started to strip down the engine. Both outer cylinder pistons are sezed solid but I hope the two inner piston will move. Any body got any suggestions how I can remove the bearing caps off on no1 and 4. Bolts are removed but I am struggling to get caps off. If it helps I will be fitting new piston and liners.

Any help very much appreciated
Thanks
Adrian Fuller

IMG_20210207_171037.jpg

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Obviously the caps are fragille'ish and cannot easily be replaced, but if you just drop the two bolts in, only the inch or so of the cap and grasp the two bolts, obviously pulling them diagonally together and gripping the cap and pulling , will that extra grip break the seal?

Alan

 

Edited by barkerwilliams
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Put bolts back in the con rod and tighten to leave a 1/4” gap before the hexagon touches the cap.

tap the heads of the bolts equally but gently to push the rod away.....whilst rotating the crank in the opposite direction.

Last year had the seized piston issue and got to where you are.   Bolted a long bar to the back of the crank and heaved in both directions.  It unseated and pushed one liner out the block.  The other three pistons moved in the liners.

Had been standing a week with diesel down the bores.

Think long and hard at this point.

what is your ultimate spec for this engine.

How much will a new set of standard type Con rod bolts, small end bushes and any machining cost compared to a new set of fully balanced and matched Maxpeeding con rods with new bolts and small end bushes cost?

https://www.maxpeedingrods.co.uk/api/product/search?year=1962&car_make=Triumph&car_model=TR4&search=
or

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/for-Triumph-TR3-TR4-MSR-Racing-Conrods-H-Beam-Connecting-Rods-158-75mm/203149186405?fits=Car+Make%3ATriumph&hash=item2f4ca29565:g:-C0AAOSw85pfkVZ4

 

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I have been looking at these after market Co rods and the are cheaper than getting new bolts for the original and fitting new little end bearings. I am sure I read somewhere that to use these there is some machining required on the liners due to the angle of the end caps, I'd this correct and had anybody got any info or videos on how to do this. I am currently planning to use 89mm liners if that makes a difference. 

Thanks again all

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Hi Adrian.

I used the Maxspeeding rods in my recent engine re-build, I fitted 87mm liners, & on checking there was no problem with rod to liner clearance. I think that may be a 6 cylinder problem ?

   1649807501_Newconrodstest2.thumb.jpg.cb7dbcbeb55f154504fbd63179eaa968.jpg   1449117924_Pistonsoffrodsreadyformachining.thumb.jpg.c172bcfa7e751fa80931868159a2c0aa.jpg

Bob.

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19 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Hi Adrian.

I used the Maxspeeding rods in my recent engine re-build, I fitted 87mm liners, & on checking there was no problem with rod to liner clearance. I think that may be a 6 cylinder problem ?

   1649807501_Newconrodstest2.thumb.jpg.cb7dbcbeb55f154504fbd63179eaa968.jpg   1449117924_Pistonsoffrodsreadyformachining.thumb.jpg.c172bcfa7e751fa80931868159a2c0aa.jpg

Bob.

 ^ +1

Mick Richards

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Evening Bob

 

I was looking at these and guess I will go that way. I assume the maxspeed con rods have the same white metal big end shell bearings. Was there any reason you stopped at 87mm? As I am planning on the 89mm liners. 

 

Also I believe you put many posts on here during the rebuild, any Idea how I find them allas I have had a good couple of hours trying to find them but failed miserably. 

 

Regards

Adrian

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Thanks Ian.

Adrian.  same bearing shells as original con rods

I went 87mm because:

General opinion was that I would not notice much gain in going to 89

89mm liners require a special (expensive) head gasket as there is not much liner top left to seal on

89mm liners & pistons are almost twice the price of the TR shop 87mm set.

I have only managed to put 70 miles on the engine so far due to lockdown, because to run the bores in properly I don't want to do lots of slow local trips, I need to get on a motorway for a few hours (which is not presently allowed).  But having said that, there is a noticable difference in the available power from before the rebuild.

Bob.

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9 hours ago, Lebro said:

Thanks Ian.

Adrian.  same bearing shells as original con rods

I went 87mm because:

General opinion was that I would not notice much gain in going to 89

89mm liners require a special (expensive) head gasket as there is not much liner top left to seal on

89mm liners & pistons are almost twice the price of the TR shop 87mm set.

I have only managed to put 70 miles on the engine so far due to lockdown, because to run the bores in properly I don't want to do lots of slow local trips, I need to get on a motorway for a few hours (which is not presently allowed).  But having said that, there is a noticable difference in the available power from before the rebuild.

Bob.

Bob I thought a few A road long trips was best for running in for variable speeds and torques. But whilst it’s all up to temp. 
with some steep hill and motorway blasts towards the latter part. 
how much mileage is needed?

300-500mile  for head re-torque with oil and filter change then a 1000 miles of the above. ?????

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21 minutes ago, Lebro said:

I'm sure Mick Richards will be along soon to give us the definative running in procedure (which I am trying to do)

Bob.

He might not tell you if you fitted an Ali sump. I don’t think he approves ;):D:ph34r:

after I’ve fitted mine I’ll let you know !!

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35 minutes ago, Hamish said:

He might not tell you if you fitted an Ali sump. I don’t think he approves ;):D:ph34r:

after I’ve fitted mine I’ll let you know !!

I...don't think I said that.
 

Mick Richards

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5 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

I...don't think I said that.
 

Mick Richards

Sorry Mick I took your boink comment and it’s vulnerability to our modern uneven roads speed humps raised manhole covers etc

as I “thought” you may not approve.

I stand corrected.  

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For what it's worth I used to race with an alloy sump but shortened so it was above the lower chassis height, it mainly gave benefits against oil leaks from the tin sump flange area, and helped support the bottom of the block from warping with the race engine. 

But that was on a race track with the only kerbs being smoothed and I was wary of riding them because of likely undercar damage. On public roads which are always being dug up and with scraped surfaces prior to retarmacking I remember with a roadgoing TR having to slalome around the protrudences. Check out the leading edges of many TR chassis, you'll see damage, never mind what would happen to lower protruding surfaces.  

Mick Richards

PS: Read the sellers description as to why the sump has damage on it, he's experienced it.

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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2 hours ago, Lebro said:

I'm sure Mick Richards will be along soon to give us the definative running in procedure (which I am trying to do)

Bob.

Hi Bob,

Well I don't know about definative, I'm sure there are quite a few variations which make b u g g e r  all difference to how the engine eventually beds in (Stuart Jenkins always used to say..."it's not a watch " ! ) but this is how I used to do it.

With a zinc rich 20-50 oil in place and with a mains driven fan on the floor in front of the radiator on the first start... start up with engine on approximate settings and with extra oil and water on hand, put engine up to about 2000 revs, if uneven running check carbs and ignition (distributor swing ok) until it's broadly ok (couple of minutes max). Then taking supply of oil and water and emergency toolkit with you (and phone) complete about 200 miles on the roads (this assumes your car is road registered (free) and self MOT'd). It might take a couple or 3 journeys to tot up the 200 miles (180 - 250 not important). At all times try to keep the revs at no less than 2000 revs despite traffic conditions (changing gear) and traffic light or road junctions, (ignore staring pedestrians ). On the open road I vary the revs between 2000 and 3000 revs using the gears to control overall speed and avoid speeding. By now you'll have some idea of what the engine needs as to better running, more retarding etc or whether the carbs need adjustment for weaker/richer running etc and of course always keep an ear open to avoid pinking. I would then drop the oil and complete a filter change. 

When you think the car is reliable enough not to cough to a halt roadside, I take the car onto the motorway and complete about 40 minutes of  BMEP running to help expand the piston rings and obtain maximum ring expansion and scraping of the cylinders to help avoid glazing of the bores. After the BMEP runs the car is fine for using without revs being restricted to your maximum you wish to use, either carry out the head gasket retorque  or put a few hundred more iles on it but before 500 miles I would make sure trhe retorque is carried out. The use it, I continue to use long gradients as a BMEP top up throughout the engines life and even my mundane road car (Ford S Max diesel) I'm sure a benefit from towing the caravan under full load for 2-3000 miles a year.

As said I'm not going to argue with anybody else's different practice with different geography and methods as Jenksy said "it's not a watch".

Mick Richards

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Ok, so I already done the 40 mins of motorway hill, top-overdrive, foot down, followed my foot off etc. But only 70 miles, I guess I could use it for local trips now (when snow & salt are gone)

Bob

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11 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Ok, so I already done the 40 mins of motorway hill, top-overdrive, foot down, followed my foot off etc. But only 70 miles, I guess I could use it for local trips now (when snow & salt are gone)

Bob

Yep...you're in the groove Jackson. (road to Rio).

Mick Richards

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