TR6 Wiring looms Auto Sparks, Rimmers or DIY?

[PodOne]

Hi all

Appreciate everyones help and encouragement so far.

I've spent a bit of time pondering and comparing 1969 TR6 PI Wiring diagrams up to CR1? from quite a few of my sources for my car which is CP26018 built 19/5/1969.

Quick numpty question what is CR1 mean?

1) Brown Book Workshop Manual

2) Dan Masters; Triumph TR250-TR6 Electrical Maintenance Handbook

3) Triumph; Repair Operation Manual 

The closest to follow seems to be the one in (3) as it lists what each component is and wire colour table on the same page. That said it has a few quirks for later cars ie Fuel Inertia switch. 

Its suggested by Stuart I've discounted Dan Masters and Advanced Auto wire as both are for US cars.  

Having thought more about it the proposed plan will be to use the old loom as an initial  pattern as suggested by ntc and Stuart with some spare cable length and split each component to have its own fuse, some in the engine bay to keep it looking original and the rest under the dash along with relays for;

1) 40A Relay/Fuse; Fuel Pump direct 12v and earth from battery, trigger wire from "old loom" supply

2) 40A Relay/Fuse; Fog lamps new circuit

3) 40A Relay/Fuse; Rad Fan new circuit

4) Radio feed/sat nav/phone charger feed

All the lights will be LED so current demands will be much lower so can't see the point in using relays any other relays I should consider? 

These will fit into one of the modular systems from car builder Solutions (less elegant than Ed's offering) and the fuse boxes with LEDs to show when/if which fuse as blown.Thinking of incorporating a Master Trip breaker for the direct 12v feed from the battery and keep the ammeter for originality.

Where's a good place to fit these under the dash?

Plan to add some good grounding posts one in the boot and bulkhead and use star earthing as much as possible rather than multiple body points for the lights as the bulb holders don't seem to be the best fitting. I'll dry run everything before wrapping it up with loom tape.

One last thing would it be worth running the starter through a 100A relay rather than the ignition switch and simply use the existing key position/wire as the trigger for the relay.

Given our cars are old school easy to steal from the off I was thinking of incorporating a hidden immobilser switch to cut the fuel pump. Anyone have a idea as to where this should go (I've used the cig lighter in the past)? (PM me).  

Lots of questions as ever but I will take lots of photos and post them so others can do a better job than me!

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Andy 

 

[Kevo_6]

40 minutes ago, PodOne said:

Hi all

Appreciate everyones help and encouragement so far.

I've spent a bit of time pondering and comparing 1969 TR6 PI Wiring diagrams up to CR1? from quite a few of my sources for my car which is CP26018 built 19/5/1969.

Quick numpty question what is CR1 mean?

1) Brown Book Workshop Manual

2) Dan Masters; Triumph TR250-TR6 Electrical Maintenance Handbook

3) Triumph; Repair Operation Manual 

The closest to follow seems to be the one in (3) as it lists what each component is and wire colour table on the same page. That said it has a few quirks for later cars ie Fuel Inertia switch. 

Its suggested by Stuart I've discounted Dan Masters and Advanced Auto wire as both are for US cars.  

Having thought more about it the proposed plan will be to use the old loom as an initial  pattern as suggested by ntc and Stuart with some spare cable length and split each component to have its own fuse, some in the engine bay to keep it looking original and the rest under the dash along with relays for;

1) 40A Relay/Fuse; Fuel Pump direct 12v and earth from battery, trigger wire from "old loom" supply

2) 40A Relay/Fuse; Fog lamps new circuit

3) 40A Relay/Fuse; Rad Fan new circuit

4) Radio feed/sat nav/phone charger feed

All the lights will be LED so current demands will be much lower so can't see the point in using relays any other relays I should consider? 

These will fit into one of the modular systems from car builder Solutions (less elegant than Ed's offering) and the fuse boxes with LEDs to show when/if which fuse as blown.Thinking of incorporating a Master Trip breaker for the direct 12v feed from the battery and keep the ammeter for originality.

Where's a good place to fit these under the dash?

Plan to add some good grounding posts one in the boot and bulkhead and use star earthing as much as possible rather than multiple body points for the lights as the bulb holders don't seem to be the best fitting. I'll dry run everything before wrapping it up with loom tape.

One last thing would it be worth running the starter through a 100A relay rather than the ignition switch and simply use the existing key position/wire as the trigger for the relay.

Given our cars are old school easy to steal from the off I was thinking of incorporating a hidden immobilser switch to cut the fuel pump. Anyone have a idea as to where this should go (I've used the cig lighter in the past)? (PM me).  

Lots of questions as ever but I will take lots of photos and post them so others can do a better job than me!

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Andy 

 

Hi Andy

I know your car is a 69 but I adapted a us wiring diagram for my 72 CP car which you may find useful.

Good luck with your project.TR6 kg wiring Diagram.pdf

Edited February 10, 2021 by Kevo_6

[PodOne]

34 minutes ago, Kevo_6 said:

Hi Andy

I know your car is a 69 but I adapted a us wiring diagram for my 72 CP car which you may find useful.

Good luck with your project.TR6 kg wiring Diagram.pdf

Hi Kev

Thanks for sharing shows much of what I hope to achieve.

Andy

[ed_h]

Andy--

I decided (sort of  abitrarily) that all loads over 5 amps would use a relay.  Horns, lights, starter solenoid, ignition and rad fan are all easily in that category. 

It's a matter of philosophy, just like there are some folks who dont want fuses in their headlight or ignition circuits.

If you fuse the line to the starter solenoid, it wouldn't need to be nearly 100 amps. Fusing the actual line from battery to starter would be unusual, and might have to be bigger than 100 amps.

Looks like you are thinking it through pretty nicely.

Ed

[ntc]

Just remember the more you fit the more that can go wrong,take your time 

[ianc]

If you decide to have fuses in your lighting, then have one fuse per "filament" (LEDs don't have filaments). 

This is what the Works did for the TR4 Rally cars on the basis that if a short circuit occurs by pranging one side of the car, then the lights on the other side would still operate. 

My car has 4 fuses for the headlamps and many more for all the other electrickery - 4 Lucas SF4 fuseboxes with 16 fuses in all, as built in 1962.  I've added more since!

The starter motor itself will draw well over 100 amps when operating - no point in fusing there, just make sure the cable cannot short to any "earth".

Ian Cornish

[Ian Vincent]

If you are looking to add relays and fuses to your loom you could do worse than look at this site. Not to buy from them necessarily but to look at their circuit diagrams for ideas on how to design yours. 

as it happens I do have one of their looms an think it’s brilliant but I accept that it’s nowhere near original and with the current exchange rates they are very expensive, that’s assuming they are still available. 

Rgds Ian

http://www.advanceautowire.com/

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Ian Vincent

[PodOne]

Thanks Ian

There was one on e bay last year I wish I'd have bought it.

The company is owned by Dan Masters whose book I already have. The design ideas are worth a revisit. 

Thanks again.

Andy

Edited February 11, 2021 by PodOne

[Ian Vincent]

2 hours ago, PodOne said:

Thanks Ian

There was one on e bay last year I wish I'd have bought it.

The company is owned by Dan Masters whose book I already have. The design ideas are worth a revisit. 

Thanks again.

Andy

Dan Masters committed suicide a few years ago. The company was bought by someone but I’m not sure if it’s still trading. 

Rgds Ian

Apologies, having checked, it was Mike Masters (the founder of Advance Autoelectrics, and Dan Masters son) who committed suicide in 2008.  The company was sold to Steve Carrick who I beleive still owns it.

Rgds Ian

Edited February 11, 2021 by Ian Vincent

[PodOne]

Hi all

Update.

After all the advice given here to myself and elsewhere I decided to make a loom from scratch. The aim was to keep the engine bay looking OEM apart from the addition of the fuel cut off switch. Generally improve things electrically by taking the load off the switches.

The old front and rear looms were used as a reference. It's nothing too fancy as I'm not that bright! I used overrated wire even though its powering LED bulbs throughout  with relays where I thought they would be of benefit, or used in later cars and to power a cooling fan and power the PI pump as many have recommended in the past. Everything including all the individual light circuits have their own earth return which is probably again overkill. Everything else has its own fuse and any additional switches will be hidden from view including a few security ones.

On reflection buying a loom would have been much quicker but I recon my terminations are as good or better and I have exactly what I want with everything better protected. Everything so far seems to work well. I just need to shorten a few wires, tidy up behind the dash and wrap the loom in the engine bay with loom tape. Not sure I will use tape behind the dash and instead use some plastic wrap which is more durable. Just a Fog relay to add using the purple wire in the pic and add a USB plug to be hidden in the ash tray.

So what would I pass on to anyone wanting to do the same?

1) Don't rush and work on one circuit at a time and have a circuit diagram(s) to hand along with around 400 cable ties which you will use, cut and replace many times as you proceed to keep it all tidy or you will loose your way.

2) Make the wires longer than needed and then cut to length, check two/three times then cut the wire.

3) Buy decent crimper for both Lucas bullets and spades. All wire and sundries bought mainly from Auto Electrical Supplies.

4) Use heat shrink over the crimp, slide on the spade boots and seal with heat shrink over the wire/boot interface - overkill but solid.

5) Use as many of the old OEM switches as possible. I stripped them all and they were repairable even the ones that initially were deemed toast.

A nice project to do but very time consuming.

Andy

 

[Kevo_6]

Looks very neat, well done Andy.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Kevo_6

[ed_h]

Very nicely done, Andy.  A very tidy looking job!

Have you looked at these woven plastic cable sleeve products?  They don't stiffen the cables like tape can, and they can be easily opened up to add a wire or two.

Ed

Edited August 7, 2022 by ed_h

[Waldi]

Very nice Andy,
You have shown it can be done by yourselves! 

Cheers,
Waldi

[ianc]

I believe that Revington TR supplies wiring looms.

Ian Cornish