Its time............

[_Dean_]

Hello everyone and first off thanks for having me aboard. Ive been reading a lot on here over the past few weeks and I have to say its an encyclopaedia of knowledge and has already helped me considerably. A bit of background if I may, in about 1984/5 I bought a '66 TR4a. It was a decent runner, looked ok from a distance so I joined the Essex group who used to meet at the White Bear, and I smoked it about for a year or two. Then it developed a leak between the rear deck/wing along the chrome beading, and was making my new carpets wet. So I popped the wing off to have a look. I dont need to tell you what I found you already know. Within about three weeks, the engine was in my parents conservatory, the body and chassis were on their driveway (separately), and bits were all over the place. Id never even done a service on a car before, and all I had was a socket set, a few tools, a Haynes manual, loads of enthusiasm, plus a never ever give up attitude. I was a total amateur, there was no internet to research stuff on, and I just piled into it. Every time I took a panel off there was rust behind it. There was no attention to originality, everything got the Hammerite treatment, for example the brake/clutch masters, the throttle linkages, the thermostat housing, behind the body panels, the floor, even the rad got it. Bead blasting ? Never heard of it lol. I was studying at the time and it took me 4 1/2 years to get it sorted. At some point the car had an engine leak and the chassis was covered in oil which worked in my favour as it only needed a rear outrigger repair, brake rebuild including new pipes etc, the usual bushes and bearings, and about 5 coats of Hammerite. The body was a mess, it ended up with new floor pans both sides, inner and outer sills, new door skins, & wings. I stripped the engine and changed the big end bearings and gave it a good decoke and clean. I was on a budget and my funds didnt stretch to the full rebuild, but I put it all back together and it started almost first time, nobody was more shocked than I was, complete fluke, no skill involved at all. Luckily the boot floor was solid and unmarked and the bonnet was good. The front inner wings needed some repairs where the bonnet hinges. Rechrome. New loom. Interior, hood and god knows what else. Im no mechanic but Im quite handy, it will never ever be concourse but it turned out a decent straight car (again more by fluke than skill), and I was proud of it. I drove it for a few years and then I moved into my new house and parked it in my garage. Work, family other commitments/hobbies etc. and it stayed there. Since late 1994. In about 2000 I drove it into Ray at TR Improvements (nice fella) and got him to change all the bushes and rubbers etc, intending to use it. Again life got in the way and it sat there. Basically it hasnt moved in over 25 years.

As the title says, its time. Ive been wanting to get it sorted for years and now find myself with the enthusiasm and also the time. The car is in a real mess having sat for so long, furry things have been living under the bonnet, its filthy under there, and Im sure the brakes and all sorts of other things are siezed solid, and every rubber on the car probably needs changing. I havent tried to put a socket on the pulley yet so dont know if the engine is solid or free, its still got half a tank of 4star in it which tells you how long its sat there...............luckily the hammerite I brushed behind every body panel and underneath seems to have worked, I can feel you guys shaking your heads and thinking no no no lol, but the body is rust free, its even got a slight shine to it. The interior is pretty good too, although Im considering a colour change so that might have to go anyway.

The plan is to drag it out, give it a good fumigating to get any nasties out first of all, such as the mouse/rat droppings on the battery box, and then get to work on it. I'll be farming the majority of the work out, my willpower is there but unfortunately my health isnt, and my days of crawling around under cars are behind me, although Im still up for stuff like a carb rebuild or interior trim etc.  Engine out, fingers crossed it isnt siezed or worse the waterways havent corroded, head off and convert to unleaded/hardened valve guides etc, a few sensible upgrades to make it more usable, such as electronic ignition, brake servo, led lights, convert to alternator, maybe a fast rd cam, a good paint.........gaps arent too bad but need improvement, nothing a good bodyshop cant sort...... (Im considering a colour change, its signal red but powder/wedgewood blue with a navy interior has been on my mind for decades), chrome or stainless bumpers, definitely want a Surrey, Honeybourne or whoever is the recommended go to, and just generally get it sorted. Im expecting a new fuel tank and lines, carb rebuild, wiper motor, and god knows what else. Im just starting to make up an attack plan, and quite honestly I dont know where to start, obviously with Covid and lockdown its going to make it even more difficult. Im guessing that Im in for about 5-6k on parts plus painting and labour.

And thats where Im at. Obviously Ive got my hands full with this one, but Ive seen a lot worse. Ive got to balance it between getting it right, but not being too fussy. Im going to regularly use it, so if the wheel arches are black instead of body colour for example, it doesnt matter. I just want it looking good and I want to get out in it and have fun. Any input, help, tips, warnings, do's, donts, are you nuts, and just plain old encouragement will be graciously accepted. Its actually a sound straight car, not up to the standards of some of your crackers, but with a bit of effort it might well end up half decent.

Nice to virtually meet you all,

Regards

Dean.

Edited February 5, 2021 by _Dean_

[Geko]

Give it to a trusted restorer with 15K and 2 years.

[John Morrison]

Dean,

WELCOME, i think this is the start of a beautiful relationship here.

I love your enthusiasm, and when on the road, that will translate to a really big smile.

Very first thoughts are;- Ive, seen a lot worse.

If I were you I wouldn't spend a penny i didn't need too, these are mechanically tough old birds, and as a starter I would look at getting her running,

plugs,points oil and filter change, if it turns over with a spanner, new petrol from a reserve supply and a decent battery, you will obviously want all new rubbers throughtout the car, brake pipes, tyres etc, brakes  and electrics. Be very careful with the size of the bill in professional hands, it will rise very quickly, and do all of what you are able yourself, get in touch with the local register group, and post lockdown have a couple of guys cast an eye over her.

John.

[Steves_TR6]

Welcome Dean!

i too would get it running before starting to restore, but it’s your car so you decide what to do :-)

steve

[Jase]

Agree with the above, start her, get her on the road and restore as you enjoy, that's what I'm doing although I've spent more time enjoying than restoring  

[ianc]

Do check the chassis first - they rust from both inside and outside, and the IRS chassis is torsionally weaker than the TR2-TR4 type, and has well-known weaknesses in mountings for both front and rear suspension (these might have been fixed).

No point in doing a lot of work on the rest of the car until you are certain that the foundation (chassis) is OK.

Good luck with your project.

Ian Cornish

[stillp]

Watching with interest, as your original restoration sounds much like mine - get it running and looking good from across the road for not much money! I spent a little over £2000, including buying the car, between '83 and '89. Yours looks much straighter than mine though!

I'm also tempted to get it tidied up by a professional, since I can still get under it to do most things, but getting up again is a different matter. If I do take it to an expert though, it won't any longer be the car I rebuilt myself, in a garage barely larger then the car, and I'm not sure I'd enjoy owning it as much.

Pete

[trchris]

Hi Dean

Agree with Ian check the chassis like he said they rust from inside out then you really need to get the engine turning and started and then the fun begins

Chris

 

[Phil Read]

A man after my own heart. Dont send it to a restorer it will cost a bomb and then you wont want to use it. I have restored many cars in the last 20+ years, slowly doing them myself on a budget. I have never tried to do one to concours or any where near it costs too much and then you have to put them in cotton wool.  There is some good advice on here. Get the chassis checked out and if ok then all the mechanicals. Body wise use the 1 metre rule, if it looks ok from 1 metre away, jump in and enjoy driving it.

[Bfg]

Sounding like a broken record, I'd agree with the above..  Clean her, service her, start her, get her on the road and enjoy her ..and then do any job as it arises.

Three important things here are ;

Self-motivation carries a whole lot further if you have a car which you can drive and enjoy.

And secondly ..which I have to say only recently I realised applies to myself ;  I'm / many of us are no longer young enough to take on a lengthy project (which always over runs) with bits of car everywhere, and only then have the time to drive the cars as we dream of doing so.  Better just get on with that dream now and learn to accept our little part of this world will never be perfect. 

And thirdly, over the past 25 or 35 years you have changed, your size and agility, as has your partner, as have your expectations of what you expect in a car.  Drive the car, date and romance her and see if you fall in love again.  Old flames are often better in your memory than in their and your old age.!  And if you do fall in love again - great.  Still it's often better to retain their patina and to relish your personal history with them.  Restoration will loose many aspects of that ..forever. 

Pete

Edited February 5, 2021 by Bfg

[Phil Read]

Forgot to say, dont listen to those who say the engine must have 60-70 psi and 25+ at tick over, If it doesnt rattle on start up, the oil light is out on tick over and you dont intend to flog it, it will last for years.

[Lebro]

+1

Bob.

[rcreweread]

Dean - welcome aboard and I can entirely relate to your TR story, it being remarkably similar to my own, the only difference being that I had to restore my TR4 about 30 years later in 2012 for my daughters wedding!

Your car looks really good and I'm sure with some careful recommissioning, you should be able to enjoy driving her as is, whilst renewing your original love affair - I agree with everyone who has said get her going and enjoy her again before embarking on a rebuild project which will take a lot longer and cost a lot more than you initially expect

I'm also based in Essex so would be more than happy to meet up post Covid and chew the cud etc - have sent you a personal message (PM) - go to the envelope icon at the top of the page and click on it to open your forum mailbox

Cheers  Rich

[stillp]

2 hours ago, Phil Read said:

Forgot to say, dont listen to those who say the engine must have 60-70 psi and 25+ at tick over, If it doesnt rattle on start up, the oil light is out on tick over and you dont intend to flog it, it will last for years.

I'd add to that - don't bother with unleaded conversion, unless you're going to hammer the car it's not worth the trouble.

Pete

[Lebro]

+1

Bob

[Mick Forey]

Hi Dean, welcome to the forum and hopefully the club. If you have not joined yet, it will be the best investment you can make in the car. https://www.tr-registershop.co.uk/membership-11-c.asp. Not only lots of good advice and access to expertise, you also get access to a good social life making friends with a common interest and doing things and going places with you car.

I am also a supporter of getting it going and drive it. The bumpers let it down visually so the cheapest way to make the car look better is to take them off. Put them aside for now and sort out the mechanics to get it running as this should not cost too much. Then check all of the chassis at once, not just the major rust spots. A new chassis is much cheaper than 20 sequential repair jobs as you chase the rust bug. Get some local members to help you, preferably one with a lift to inspect it carefully before spending loads of dosh. Measure the hogging/sagging with the doors opened/closed. Compare this to somebody else's know entity.

Whatever issue you have, somebody has been there before, you only need to read and ask.

Mick

[cvtrian]

3 hours ago, Mick Forey said:

Hi Dean, welcome to the forum and hopefully the club. If you have not joined yet, it will be the best investment you can make in the car. https://www.tr-registershop.co.uk/membership-11-c.asp. Not only lots of good advice and access to expertise, you also get access to a good social life making friends with a common interest and doing things and going places with you car.

 

Mick

Hi Dean
what Mick might also have added is that MOSS will pay your TRR membership fees if you spend £300+, I think, with them on parts (or at least that was the deal last time I looked a few years ago) I hope this benefit is continuing!
Ian

[_Dean_]

23 hours ago, Geko said:

Give it to a trusted restorer with 15K and 2 years.

I was guessing around 12, but unfortunately I dont have two years to wait.

[_Dean_]

21 hours ago, John Morrison said:

Dean,

WELCOME, i think this is the start of a beautiful relationship here.

I love your enthusiasm, and when on the road, that will translate to a really big smile.

Very first thoughts are;- Ive, seen a lot worse.

If I were you I wouldn't spend a penny i didn't need too, these are mechanically tough old birds, and as a starter I would look at getting her running,

plugs,points oil and filter change, if it turns over with a spanner, new petrol from a reserve supply and a decent battery, you will obviously want all new rubbers throughtout the car, brake pipes, tyres etc, brakes  and electrics. Be very careful with the size of the bill in professional hands, it will rise very quickly, and do all of what you are able yourself, get in touch with the local register group, and post lockdown have a couple of guys cast an eye over her.

John.

Cheers John,

Its been a beautiful relationship for years, I had some great times with the car, but life just gets in the way sometimes. It honestly isnt a bad car, from what I can see theres very little rust on it. The engine bay is by far the worst aspect, mainly from dirt blowing under the garage door and through the grill,  and if I wanted to put some bumpers on it, get it running and changed the rubbers etc, gave it a good mop it wouldnt be too bad.............but, the chassis is an unknown, I slapped Hammerite everywhere, and Im confident the outside wont have rusted......the inside is the thing thats worrying me. Over the next few weeks I'll drag it out, and get under it with a camera, see what you guys on here think.

Dean.

[_Dean_]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:36 AM, Steves_TR6 said:

Welcome Dean!

i too would get it running before starting to restore, but it’s your car so you decide what to do :-)

steve

 

21 hours ago, Jase said:

Agree with the above, start her, get her on the road and restore as you enjoy, that's what I'm doing although I've spent more time enjoying than restoring  

Cheers fellas, ok its not going to be quite as simple as that, the short version is that due to health reasons, both myself and the Mrs, I need to just get it done so I can get some mileage under my belt before the brown stuff hits the fan. If I was a youngster Id def go with your recommendations.

One other consideration, as you can see from the pics, the garage is not too good, so Im planning on putting a new garage up while its away. No way is a newly painted car going in that garage. I also want to make one last house move, so want to get it done before then. Time is of the essence. Im not desperate, but I dont want to hang around.

Dean.

Edited February 6, 2021 by _Dean_

[_Dean_]

19 hours ago, ianc said:

Do check the chassis first - they rust from both inside and outside, and the IRS chassis is torsionally weaker than the TR2-TR4 type, and has well-known weaknesses in mountings for both front and rear suspension (these might have been fixed).

No point in doing a lot of work on the rest of the car until you are certain that the foundation (chassis) is OK.

Good luck with your project.

Ian Cornish

Cheers Ian,

Ok first question........when I restored it back in 86 ish, there were no chassis strengthening kits....... that I was aware of anyway. Obviously they are important add ons around the diff mount and front suspention legs etc. So.....can they be added with the body in situ, or is it a body off job ?

Dean.

[_Dean_]

19 hours ago, Phil Read said:

A man after my own heart. Dont send it to a restorer it will cost a bomb and then you wont want to use it. I have restored many cars in the last 20+ years, slowly doing them myself on a budget. I have never tried to do one to concours or any where near it costs too much and then you have to put them in cotton wool.  There is some good advice on here. Get the chassis checked out and if ok then all the mechanicals. Body wise use the 1 metre rule, if it looks ok from 1 metre away, jump in and enjoy driving it.

Thanks Phil,

Unfortunately time is of relevance, I could do it myself but it would take forever, and I want to get it on the road asap. I do have someone in mind, Ive known him since we were kids and hes got a massive rep in the American car market, however he has done a tr4 and owns one in his fleet. That should help keep the costs down.

Dean.

[_Dean_]

19 hours ago, Bfg said:

Sounding like a broken record, I'd agree with the above..  Clean her, service her, start her, get her on the road and enjoy her ..and then do any job as it arises.

Three important things here are ;

Self-motivation carries a whole lot further if you have a car which you can drive and enjoy.

And secondly ..which I have to say only recently I realised applies to myself ;  I'm / many of us are no longer young enough to take on a lengthy project (which always over runs) with bits of car everywhere, and only then have the time to drive the cars as we dream of doing so.  Better just get on with that dream now and learn to accept our little part of this world will never be perfect. 

And thirdly, over the past 25 or 35 years you have changed, your size and agility, as has your partner, as have your expectations of what you expect in a car.  Drive the car, date and romance her and see if you fall in love again.  Old flames are often better in your memory than in their and your old age.!  And if you do fall in love again - great.  Still it's often better to retain their patina and to relish your personal history with them.  Restoration will loose many aspects of that ..forever. 

Pete

Pete you talk a lot of sense........if I was a bit healthier Id totally agree with you, but I just want to give it its final makeover, and then enjoy it as much and as long as possible.

[_Dean_]

19 hours ago, Phil Read said:

Forgot to say, dont listen to those who say the engine must have 60-70 psi and 25+ at tick over, If it doesnt rattle on start up, the oil light is out on tick over and you dont intend to flog it, it will last for years.

The only issues I remember from when I last used it was it ran on a bit after switching off. Probably just my inexperience with the timing and setting up the carbs, Im confident that I can sort that now..........if it hasnt seized solid lol.

[_Dean_]

17 hours ago, rcreweread said:

Dean - welcome aboard and I can entirely relate to your TR story, it being remarkably similar to my own, the only difference being that I had to restore my TR4 about 30 years later in 2012 for my daughters wedding!

Your car looks really good and I'm sure with some careful recommissioning, you should be able to enjoy driving her as is, whilst renewing your original love affair - I agree with everyone who has said get her going and enjoy her again before embarking on a rebuild project which will take a lot longer and cost a lot more than you initially expect

I'm also based in Essex so would be more than happy to meet up post Covid and chew the cud etc - have sent you a personal message (PM) - go to the envelope icon at the top of the page and click on it to open your forum mailbox

Cheers  Rich

Rich thats very kind of you, and so was your message. I will be in touch when the time comes and I thank you.

Dean.