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TR6 Engine Improvements


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On 2/1/2021 at 10:25 AM, JohnC said:

 

That's the single most noticeable improvement I've made to my 6. After a rebuild 20 years ago, I still remember the smile the smoothness brought to my face. Not to mention the extra 1000-odd RPM I felt able to use ( didn't dare go close to the red line before!).

I'm intrigued by that, and not in a skeptical way. That's the next mod on my roadmap, now that I've done the head gas-flowing and CR increase. I'll probably go ahead regardless, but I will do before & after dyno runs. 

John

Hi John 

Yep balancing appears to be a good idea while the engine is in bits,  how expensive did you find it?

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On 2/1/2021 at 10:35 AM, matt george said:

Hi Paul,

I restored an ex-US TR6 a couple of years ago. Engine was rebuilt including most of the modifications that you've mentioned, with excellent results. Block chemically dipped, then line bored for cam bearings. All the bottom end rotating parts were balanced, which allows for higher revs without encountering any issues. 218225 cylinder head, new valves, hardened seats, lightly skimmed to give a compression ratio of 10.1:1. Piper Yellow cam, twin SU HS6 (BCH needles) on a long branch inlet manifold. 6-2-1 exhaust manifold and 2.25in Phoenix straight through exhaust system. I know the 6-3-1 manifold is rated more highly, but mine was free, so that went on.

With all of the above, the car goes very well ;) For what was a relatively 'budget' build, I'm delighted. In terms of bang for buck, a well set up pair of SUs with suitable needles are hard to beat. Sure, EFI or Webers will ultimately allow for more power, but the much higher cost put both of those options out of my price range. I also have a 2000 saloon that has been running a tuned 2500TC engine on SUs for the past nine years, again with great results, so I can vouch for that method of fuel delivery over a longer period of time.

Matt

Matt great feed back, thanks. I removed the Cam today and all looks good regarding wear/marks is the line boring a common mods and something I need to do even if everything looks good? Who did you use for balancing and chem clean of the block??

 

Rich

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On 2/1/2021 at 12:10 PM, Tim D. said:

Hi Paul,

There's lots on the forum from the past on this.. But first thing to think about before dolling out the cash is how you drive the car, and what makes you smile? For example, Is it dropping it down a cog or two and whipping it up to redline? or is it the boot of low down torque? or is it actually the throaty raw of the engine? ( I put this one in because my first classic, a spitfire with twin webbers, went through a period of having a really sexy bark on over run. I knew it was a manifold leak, but I left it because it felt good getting the crackeling from the exhaust as I drove it around town :-)

 Obviously you can tune to ultimate power etc but inevitably this comes at a price (money and often drivability) or you can tune for fun... They are not the same thing..

I went through the high reving phase when i had an elan with the lotus twincam. Wonderful when mated to the ford Gearbox..

I now enjoy low down torque and am lazy with the gears. Which is why I went with the supercharger in the TR. I also have an MG midget with a 1.8 K Series engine. This gives you both.. can drive in 5th round town, and howls up to 8K rpm... but not as nice to drive long distances as the TR.

My point (and apologies for meandering) is think carefully about what driving experience you want before commiting.. Ideal drive some examples (I know... not really on at the mo!).

 

Cheers

Tim

Hi Tim

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, yes i want a nice sound as all us petrol heads do, come the day of electric I will hopefully be in a cask!   Regarding driving style, no huge trips across Europe, just local runs around Gods Country Yorkshire, with the capability of zipping past the Sunday driver .

 

Rich

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On 2/1/2021 at 1:34 PM, cvtrian said:

Well, my advice would be to get the car handling properly before increasing any power, ie suspension, brakes, steering and tyres. Cars set up properly in this way will always be a better driving experience than any power increase can produce.
I would then go step by step, starting with the head, valve sizes, porting and compression ratio. After that you start spending more money for often relatively marginal gain in the real world, particularly if you simply drive the car quickly and not flat out or in competition.
A car well sorted in the handling department will beat many a car with more power.
Tin hat on
Ian

Hi Ian

Thanks for the reply, I've gone for a Standard road set up, replaced all suspension/steering bushes (blue) overhauled the original rear shock dampeners, fitted new road springs on all four corners, new crossed drilled discs front and new pistons/seals etc on the rear.  The car will be for a Sunday lively drive definitely no racing, just good fun with a bit of Zip

Best Regards Rich

 

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On 2/1/2021 at 7:31 PM, PodOne said:

If it's any help I was in the same boat regarding a rebuild and decided to go for a more or less std build spec as the car will be no track dog but more of a sedate cruiser able to keep up with modern traffic and hopefully sound good. She will run on her original PI (UK 1969) So I went for the following;

Bottom end; crank regrind, shells, rebore/country pistons/rings, cam bearing (out of spec), new OEM std cam, blue printed oil pump, new damper. The whole bottom end plus fly wheel and clutch cover balanced.

Head; std head, bronze guides, exhaust seats replaced, new valves/springs, hardened rocker shaft and bushed rockers. Distributor rebuilt from DD with electronic ignition.

Exhaust is a nearly new 2 3/4" only decision left is which exhaust manifold. After reading the comments here I'm tempted to keep the cast manifold if it flows as well as people says rather than a tubular design?

I'm getting the impression there are different cast manifolds? Is the early one the one to keep?

Agree with comments around sorting the rest of the car before any increases in power otherwise it will either not end well or will never allow the increase in power to be used effectively.

Cheers

Andy 

Andy

Thanks for the reply, like you i want a car with some gusto but not a street racer, must be reliable but fun and a little bit of z.

Rich

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Hi All 

 

Big thanks for the feed back to date, I've realised that I'm responding with my usual middle name which is Richard! Yes my first name is Paul so anything official I use this, so I apologise for any confusion, my Mother has so much to answer for she even changed my twin brothers name after 1 year again from first to middle. I wont give her a hard time now as she is heading towards her late 80s !

 

Regards Paul Richard Drescher

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12 hours ago, Paul Drescher said:

Hi John

TESCO do a 99 octane much cheaper, our local Rally Drivers fill their cans at the local TESCO'sI take my 370Z their for a monthly fill up. What advantage will CR 10.5 would be compared to 9.5 ? could this compromise any future head gasket leaks that cold require head re-skim?

Rich

This is why, Paul:

Consumption-Power-CR.jpg.7005176d9aa4302334733a03c97ce788.jpg

As you raise CR, the efficiency of combustion increases and power increases, as consumption falls.   The limit, of course is 'knocking', when the charge detonates rather than burns evenly.        In my experience, using 99 RON octane fuel, 10.5 is the limit!    I say that, because the first spring after building my first engine with 10.5, it knocked!   But that was on the ffule that had sat in the tank over winter.    A refill with fresh fuel cured it.

I use Payen head gaskets and have never had a leak.

John

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12 hours ago, Paul Drescher said:

Hi Tim

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, yes i want a nice sound as all us petrol heads do, come the day of electric I will hopefully be in a cask!   Regarding driving style, no huge trips across Europe, just local runs around Gods Country Yorkshire, with the capability of zipping past the Sunday driver .

 

Rich

In which case I think what people are proposing makes sense.. steer away from anything that reduces low end grunt if you can. You don't want it misbehaving as you do 30mph through the Yorkshire villages.

 

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Hi Rich,

Cam bearings only required if you have wear in this area, as it will have detriment to your oil pressure.  If there is no wear, there is no need for them.  If required, line bearings would cost you around £200-250 to have installed.

Cheers.

 

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14 hours ago, Paul Drescher said:

Great feed back thanks

1.  Ribbed block ? i presume engine block any pictures of what i need to look for?

2. Pistons look in great original condition with a few tiny markings so I'm going to measure and if OK just replace all piston rings

3. Now definitely considering balancing, please excuse my ignorance but how do you balance piston rods and pistons, i understand crank assembly as this could be put in a balance machine as a unit but rods and and pistons how do this work?

4. Removed Cam followers today, look perfect, if i get a new cam do i have to buy the followers to match the cam?

5. 6. 7. Agree 

Hi Rich/Paul,

 

Please see ribbed block below. You can see the rib that runs under the engine mounting along the length here.

post-197-0-78713700-1498628051.jpg

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14 hours ago, Paul Drescher said:

Great feed back thanks

1.  Ribbed block ? i presume engine block any pictures of what i need to look for?

2. Pistons look in great original condition with a few tiny markings so I'm going to measure and if OK just replace all piston rings

3. Now definitely considering balancing, please excuse my ignorance but how do you balance piston rods and pistons, i understand crank assembly as this could be put in a balance machine as a unit but rods and and pistons how do this work?

4. Removed Cam followers today, look perfect, if i get a new cam do i have to buy the followers to match the cam?

5. 6. 7. Agree 

Best to call Vibration Free on 01869 345535 for pricing and how they balance everything.

I would change the followers every time if you're installing a new cam. EN40 steel followers (quality) are £132, and it is not worth trying to save a fiver, to spend £20 down the line.  Newman cams cam be contacted on: 01689 857 109.

Cheers.

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On 2/1/2021 at 7:31 PM, PodOne said:

If it's any help I was in the same boat regarding a rebuild and decided to go for a more or less std build spec as the car will be no track dog but more of a sedate cruiser able to keep up with modern traffic and hopefully sound good. She will run on her original PI (UK 1969) So I went for the following;

Bottom end; crank regrind, shells, rebore/country pistons/rings, cam bearing (out of spec), new OEM std cam, blue printed oil pump, new damper. The whole bottom end plus fly wheel and clutch cover balanced.

Head; std head, bronze guides, exhaust seats replaced, new valves/springs, hardened rocker shaft and bushed rockers. Distributor rebuilt from DD with electronic ignition.

Exhaust is a nearly new 2 3/4" only decision left is which exhaust manifold. After reading the comments here I'm tempted to keep the cast manifold if it flows as well as people says rather than a tubular design?

I'm getting the impression there are different cast manifolds? Is the early one the one to keep?

Agree with comments around sorting the rest of the car before any increases in power otherwise it will either not end well or will never allow the increase in power to be used effectively.

Cheers

Andy 

Hi Andy

 

I see that you live in Wakefield, who did you use for the balancing and any engine work?

 

Regards Rich

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