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Hi Folks,

This is no slight on our Scottish friends but did anybody find it odd that the first minister of Scotland should tell the UK prime minister not to come to Scotland because he will spread the plague.  Every body else thought it a good idea.

Why does she simply come out with the truth - we don;t want you here.

Scoring brownie points all the time.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Unfortunately Roger, the fish lady is self obsessed.

The truth is irrelevant, except for her truth.

Smacks of DT in America

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2 hours ago, wjgco said:

Unfortunately Roger, the fish lady is self obsessed.

The truth is irrelevant, except for her truth.

Smacks of DT in America

+1 Says her that goes from Glasgow to Edinburgh to get herself on tv every day they must be getting fed up of it 

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On 1/28/2021 at 3:14 PM, ntc said:

+1 Says her that goes from Glasgow to Edinburgh to get herself on tv every day they must be getting fed up of it 

Unfortunately they aren't getting fed up with her.  The general perception is that she has done a better job of providing leadership during the pandemic than BJ.

Rgds Ian

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1 hour ago, Ian Vincent said:

Unfortunately they aren't getting fed up with her.  The general perception is that she has done a better job of providing leadership during the pandemic than BJ.

That's not what they're saying in my mate's pub in Dumfries. Unfortunately they don't seem to have an acceptable alternative to vote for.

Pete

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I’d like to think there are more mates in a Pub, it seems to me though many Scots actually are convinced they are underdogs treated badly, despite receiving more from the economy than contributed to it, with the exception of a couple of years. Despite having two chancellors and prime minister in the top UK jobs, it appears the majority prefer anyone provided they are Scottish and or not Conservative.

She does comes over well though, she communicates what she wants to, answers questions with questions. A common start to a question, I wouldn’t want to suggest, then suggests exactly that, she manipulates and when questioned or asks difficult questions is regularly evasive switches blame eg vaccine,  accepts mistakes while stating not what she hasn’t done but what she did better than Boris, clearly that politics she’s just better at it.

She accepts their is a appalling record on drug deaths and has dismal health and education results,  while stating we are looking into how we can change this, even though SNP have had a majority for over a decade and achieved little. Even when accusations of misleading accounts regarding Alex Salmond, it seems irrelevant while stating no comment, as she hasn’t talked to the investigating committee. The first minister can’t get to give her account after all this time, only providing a written statement.

Apparently she is quite happy to provide EU with information whether classified or otherwise to help them undermine the UK, beg re-entry to EU, why? To achieve the only real objective SNP have, to break up the union, even to the detriment of Scotland and the UK as a whole it seems.

Until the Government of the United Kingdom stops trying to ignore her hoping the problem will go away, not just saying no, it will just wind the Scottish up. Start showing what the real benefits are, not dismissing everyone from SNP with glib remarks and seriously promote the obvious benefits,  give them reasons why they should remain United listen and react positively. Really hold SNP to account, their lack of achievements, the mishandling of funds received and those failed to be allocated, held back in favour of funding Independence? Until that happens we are very likely to see the very separation the SNP wants, if not now soon, I believe that would be a mistake.

Just a Misfits opinion.

 

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I agree Misfit - to split the Union will be a grave mistake.

Ms Sturgeon is the consummate politician - on Covid she seems to be able to always be a step ahead, probably because as First Minister she is party - quite rightly - to all the upcoming announcements coming out of the Westminster decision making process, and probably the detail of those processes to get there too, which she uses to her advantage by announcing things a few hours before Boris and/or making a slight populist tweak to what is about to be said.

The problem that Westminster/Boris will have is akin to the Remain campaign of 2015/16. He mustn't fall into the same trap of a purely negative campaign, he must put forward the benefits of the Union to the whole of the UK, and importantly the Scots - but not in a way that can be turned into a negative by the SNP. It will be tough.

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Should there be a referendumnium on the Union it should be made clear that if one part of the Union wants to leave it must be up to ALL the Union population to vote on it.

As a result in favour of a break up will destroy it for all.

Not just a bunch of biased folk that have a grudge promoted  by a very selfish woman who wants to get her name in the history books.

These are just my thoughts

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The SNP are very good at spending English money to spread the word, only yesterday or the day before the SNP Scottish budget required 8.2 billion to implement but required yet more cash from the Channcellor! As for Boris travelling north the deputy SNP leader seems to pop up in Westminster and breakfast TV almost daily while been interviewed at home in Scotland the other day it must be essential travel then!

As all ready said Scotland contributes to the UK a net nothing and receive benefits which are not available to the rest of us here or our families which they are quite happy for us to keep footing the bill for. North of the lowlands is only fit for sheep and tourists which are in short supply, oil is no longer in fashion and we can generate our own renewables so we can live without Scotlands exports and they are a bit remote from the EU to be viable

For me if they want to leave then let them leave and save us all the burden. The SNP are deluded at best if they think the EU will have them back on the previous terms more likely they will be seen as yet another impoverished state with their hands out as now. The Uk government need to publish robust figs of just how much Scotland costs the UK/head in terms of subsidies.

Allowing devolved assemblies in the first place was a mistake but less of a mistake by not been an inclusive government for the whole of the UK for the past 100 years which would have avoided the want. There again the UK government could change the law and shut them down and stop the endless droning from wee cranky and co while we all get on getting the UK back on its feet.

Andy

PS All my family are of Scots/Irish decent and came to England to earn a crust and are against independence. I wonder if we will be allowed an overseas vote?

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What is worrying about Rogers point is, if we in England are able to vote on Scottish independence, there will be a vote for said independence.

 

Many people I know are so fed up up with all the SNP noise, they would happily send her and by default, her country, on their way.

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I agree John, too many would do as you say and vote to be rid.

Here are the two First Ministers of the devolved goverments, taken inside the Bayeux Cathedral at the D-Day 75th Commemoration service in 2019. You can see that NS is never one to miss that someone is taking a photograph.

P1030447a.jpg

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13 hours ago, RogerH said:

Should there be a referendumnium on the Union it should be made clear that if one part of the Union wants to leave it must be up to ALL the Union population to vote on it.

As a result in favour of a break up will destroy it for all.

Not just a bunch of biased folk that have a grudge promoted  by a very selfish woman who wants to get her name in the history books.

These are just my thoughts

Seems a fair idea. 

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Sadly opinions in this thread from London, Chelmsford, Frome, West Sussex, Wakefield and Cheshire do not matter a scrap.    What will matter are the opinions of Scots, and they are overwhelmingly in favour of the SNP, and their vote in the previous referendum has now reversed to be in favour of independance. 

  See: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/01/scottish-independence-poll-tracker-will-scotland-vote-leave-uk

To congratulate workers in vaccine production and delivery in Scotland might be considered "essential" travel for a Prime Minister, but there can be no doubt that dePiffle Johnson's choice to do so in highly controlled situations, with carefully selected and limited people, was to protect him from what would otherwise have been an opportunity for Scots to demonstrate their contempt.   Just to do so, and in such circumstnces, plays into the hands of the SNP, and will increase their majority.

Daughter was an Honourary Scot, a Scottish International by residence, and now by marriage.      If it does happen, I might look for Scots citizenship through her, if an association down the generations works as well as for the thousands who have suddenly found Irish, and other EU ancestors.

John

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Polls...do not an election OR referendum result make.

There are many Scots keeping their heads down and letting the "noise" pass over, "keeping their powder dry" I think it's called. When the consideration of loosing the EU 16% of their trade (or whatever it is) because of Brexit is compared against the 64% of trade (or whatever) to be lost by breaking from the Union is compared it tends to sharpen the mind wonderfully.

This when added to the currency problem and which lender of last resort wants to stand behind the Scottish...what ? that they decide are allowed to use for finance, and when the reworked loss of GDP from the drop in oil from it's previous $110 a barrell to the present $50 dollars (or thereabouts as it fluctuates) and the realisation that it's about the cost of the ENTIRE budget for the Scottish NHS per annum, and where will they get the monies from to replace ? comes to mind, it sounds like the Panama fiasco they had in the early 1700s coming back to visit.

If they do decide to take the risk and take the financial hits...then good luck to them in their venture. If they allow I'll still visit my friends north of the border many of who in private talk differently from the yahoos the SNP visit upon the population to keep the subject within public view. Their country, their decision.

Mick Richards

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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I am Scottish by descent 3 generations back on my maternal side, The Cross, Linlithgow Palace birthplace of Mary Queen of Scots and my MURRAY Ancestors. I hope they don’t cut me off as I adore Scotland but not The Fish Woman.

Edited by SuzanneH
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2 hours ago, john.r.davies said:

Sadly opinions in this thread from London, Chelmsford, Frome, West Sussex, Wakefield and Cheshire do not matter a scrap.    What will matter are the opinions of Scots, and they are overwhelmingly in favour of the SNP, and their vote in the previous referendum has now reversed to be in favour of independance. 

  See: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/01/scottish-independence-poll-tracker-will-scotland-vote-leave-uk

To congratulate workers in vaccine production and delivery in Scotland might be considered "essential" travel for a Prime Minister, but there can be no doubt that dePiffle Johnson's choice to do so in highly controlled situations, with carefully selected and limited people, was to protect him from what would otherwise have been an opportunity for Scots to demonstrate their contempt.   Just to do so, and in such circumstnces, plays into the hands of the SNP, and will increase their majority.

Daughter was an Honourary Scot, a Scottish International by residence, and now by marriage.      If it does happen, I might look for Scots citizenship through her, if an association down the generations works as well as for the thousands who have suddenly found Irish, and other EU ancestors.

John

I thought that this was a forum for opinions. Surely we can express views about what could be a catastrophic move , and this thread has been very polite so far. 

Sadly you seem to be very angry about many things John and can't resist a dig at our PM carrying out what I consider a wholly reasonable inspection of, and showing his support for, the impressive actions being carried out across the whole nation. He would have been criticised by many, yourself included no doubt, if he hadn't.

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4 minutes ago, Rod1883 said:

I thought that this was a forum for opinions. Surely we can express views about what could be a catastrophic move , and this thread has been very polite so far. 

Sadly you seem to be very angry about many things John and can't resist a dig at our PM carrying out what I consider a wholly reasonable inspection of, and showing his support for, the impressive actions being carried out across the whole nation. He would have been criticised by many, yourself included no doubt, if he hadn't.

+1  Come on John. Don;t make your self look daft.

 

Roger

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10 minutes ago, RogerH said:

+1  Come on John. Don;t make your self look daft.

 

Roger

All ways an opinion and none of what he would do.Thought he would have learned eating humble pie over the vacation 

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Was I forbidding anyone else's opinion?  I point out that yours in the South are as *&^(*& in the wind compared to the near unaminous opinion in Scotland, and that is interpeted as muzzling you?    Can you not take criticism?   

Yes, I am angry, angry that England, and a small group of politicians and financiers has persuaded the UK to do such a stupid thing.     Angry, that the same group persistently patronises the people of the UK.   Angry, that the best efforts of good people and poor people are trashed, in the name of a vainglorious project.    Angry, that this lot in the face of a greater challenge have spent many, many times more to support the country than their predecessors deprived it of to deal with a lesser one, and get praised for it!

John

Edited by john.r.davies
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I'm not surprised that there will be calls for referendums until the "right" answer is obtained then democracy will fly out of the window. 

Independence can work well, just ask America, but then look at the grief (It's complicated - I know) that makes life so difficult for all the people in  northern  & southern Ireland. Small is often better, but very small does not seem so good when there will be border issues. 

I hope it does not happen as we are better together, perhaps not this year, or maybe the next ten years but look forward to the next one hundred years and the problems the earth will have and take a long term view - not any politicians  strong point.

Alan

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Just noticed this thread, and I see that although I assume plenty of TRR members are Scots none of them appear motivated to post here, this seems like just an echo chamber of English people saying what they think about the leader the Scots decided to elect (she's the head of the Scottish National Party, the clue's presumably in the name...). Of course we know opinions in Scotland vary but right now the polls indicate a majority minded to vote Yes in any referendum.

It will be for the Scots to decide on whether they want to be independent or not and I suspect they will make their decisions as much about their tastes in constitutional sovereignty as about the economics. As did a lot of people who voted Leave in the Brexit referendum despite some assumptions by those opposing it that money would be all people cared about.

I saw a suggestion above that any referendum should be UK-wide. I can see no valid argument for that in a referendum about secession from a political union albeit a 300 year old one. Under the principles of self determination and government by consent it would have to be a decision for the Scots themselves. (Ironically, I didn't hear many Brexit supporters saying all EU citizens should get a vote in the 2016 referendum).

Nigel

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We are all entitled to our opinions and it’s interesting to hear others thoughts.  It seems United we are not, our friend with whom we have invested significant sums of money, being one of the largest contributors to the EU, having asked for changes were refused,  leading the way to a referendum and the British people deciding to leave the remaining EU 27 as friends. I personally thought we should remain however now I feel differently.

Apparently these same friends are happier to see us fail, even prefer it. They would even rather divert the financial dealings to  USA’s Wall Street than London.  They have taken the first opportunity to put the Northern Ireland protocol at risk and put into question the very thing they said they were determined to avoid a hard boarder between Eire and NI.  Even do it without the required warning.

Why? Because a independent company couldn’t  fulfil the quotas they would do their best endeavour to provide from a newly erected laboratory/factory because of their internal problems and the fact EU dithered and delayed so such a facility was not set up.

Then we have our neighbours, members of our United Kingdom that appear happier to side with others, even form a partnership with those that in honesty in my opinion would more likely see Scotland Wales and NI as a liability than a equal partner, I suggest less like partners than here within the UK. Just swallowed up into a federal Europe.  Ask Greece, even Ireland perhaps are starting to see EU for what it is, as recent events have shown.  More likely to  abandoned them, forgotten as soon as it suits. Perhaps even Italy, Sweden, Hungary and Poland are seeing this.

300+ years ago Scotland and England and much of Europe were at odds with each other.  However when Scotland fell into financial difficulties as did much of Europe Scotland and England made an  agreements together,  we became united which has  benefited us all, ALL

Perhaps I have tinted classes, I see this United Kingdom as probably the most successful Union ever.  Unity through 2 recent world wars.  What we have achieved together and pass on to the rest of the world.  The USA being the home of democracy, they wish.  United States of American and the EU, are just infants, nobody has stood the test of time like Great Britain and NI.  EU outward looking, I see self interest, protectionism, discord, bitterness and jealous. 
 

Scotland Wales NI and England, Yes there has been problems but perhaps it’s time to remind each other what we have done together and how strong we can be, provided we remain United. Well good ridden doesn’t wash with me, it times like these we should fight for what we have, show we see all as partners not controlled, leave that to EU.

Edited by Misfit
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