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Fitting an Integral Oven.


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Hi guys, hoping to pick some collective brains here.

'Thanks' to lockdown, SWMBO has decided a kitchen revamp is in order!

Me being a total coward, have agreed its a good idea?????

Most of this is within my capabilities, but I need some advice on fitting a new oven.

Comes on a 13 amp plug, from the manufacturers, and is rated at 2.1KW Max.

So can this be wired, with a dedicated cooker circuit, on a spur from the ring main?

John.

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2.1kW is about 9 amps, so a spur off the ring main is fine.  Connect it onto a double-pole switch with neon, such as Screwfix 76918, which is for this application, or, if you don't want to remove the plug from the lead, into a conventional double-pole 13A socket with neon.

Ian Cornish

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The regulations concerning this are that Installation of a new cooker circuit (i.e dedicated new wiring from the consumer unit) even if it is a new 13A socket  rather than hard wired,  is notifiable under part P of the building regulations i.e. it has to be certified by a 'Registered Competent Person'.  

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf

However, minor alterations to an existing circuit are not notifiable unless in a 'special location' like a bathroom. ( paras 2.7 and 2.8 on page 7).  A short spur connection to the existing ring probably falls under this clause. The installation must still conform to BS 7671.  (the problem with that is to get a copy will cost you upwards of £75).

Appendix 15 of BS7671 (reg 433.1.5) recommends that cookers over 2kW should be on their own dedicated circuit, but this is only guidance and does not prohibit connection to an existing ring provided it does not result in overload.

Edited by RobH
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Might be worth looking at the regs to see if you are "allowed" to do it yourself. (Building regs , section P, I think.)

I know that doing work in bathrooms is a no-no, and I had a feeling that a kitchen was the same.  Would anyone ever know who did it? Probably not, until something goes wrong.,.

Charlie

 

Rob beat me to it !

Edited by Charlie D
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33 minutes ago, ianc said:

2.1kW is about 9 amps, so a spur off the ring main is fine.  Connect it onto a double-pole switch with neon, such as Screwfix 76918, which is for this application, or, if you don't want to remove the plug from the lead, into a conventional double-pole 13A socket with neon.

Ian Cornish

If the 13A plug is removed, then a fuse should be incorporated somewhere else, also cutting it off would invalidate any warranty.

I would leave the plug on.

Bob

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In  the distant past, when electricians did not require qualifications, and to fund my way through college, I rewired houses. I was working with someone else who was an electrician, but we worked on different houses in parallel. From that time I have always done all the wiring in places I have lived, and occasionally for others, on the basis that I am competent. The problem in more recent times is that you now need part P to show that your are qualified.

Four years ago, I had a qualified electrician install an armoured cable from the consumer unit for my house to the consumer unit for my garden shed (office), for which I had already installed the wiring for a ring main and lighting circuits, a spur for a pottery kiln, and a spare RCBO connected to the shed consumer unit. It was all signed off, but when I went to use the ring main, it kept tripping the breakers. Eventually I tracked the fault to the armoured cable installation, where the qualified electrician had switched earth and neutral between the two ends. Qualified, but incompetent!

I looked into what was required to qualify, and there was no way to take the exam unless you had attended a 3 year training course, and paid the annual fee. I know I have the skills and the background, and I know how to test the circuits as required, but I am not about to attend a 3 year course to be told stuff I learned 45 years ago.

The only option is to trust a qualified electrician to provide you with the sign off, after you as a competent person have installed the wiring. If you have a friend who is qualified then it is worth a crate of beer. The going rate around here to get a sign off for work you have done yourself is £200+

TT

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In the 1970’s I knew a developer in London who used to convert old houses into flats.

He got me to do the wiring in each flat. The only skill needed was to find a way to give the council inspector a £10 “Tip” in order to get him to sign the work off.

My accountant suggested that I place a £10 note on the floor, then bend down and say “I think you have just dropped this”

They were always happy to agree.

 

Yes, it was not very honest, but there was NO WAY the work would be signed off without the “Tip”.

 

Well…

London….

What do you expect.

 

Charlie.

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The last 10 years of my working life was spent on electrical testing and inspection on local authority and housing association properties, including public buildings ,car parks sheltered accommodation etc. Two things that did become apparent is that even the IET couldn't give a definitive interpretation of the regs in some circumstances ,there response being "do you think it's safe, if so pass it" and secondly the competence of some qualified electricians was worrying some couldn't wire a two way light circuit correctly.

Anyway on to John's oven

1 . retain the 13a plug and depending on the design of the cabinet fit a 13a socket either at the back or on top of the unit 

2. where is the nearest power source, is it a ring main or cooker outlet . If a ring main you have two options change the socket for a double pole switch fused unit and then a) hard wire the oven socket to it  or b) wire the oven outlet via suitably rated flex and 13a plug and plug straight in to the ring main socket.  Option b is not the recommended way but is often used by kitchen fitters as certification is not required.

If an existing cooker switch is available it would be best to use that and a) change the switch for a fused outlet  or de rate the whole circuit by changing the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit (fuse box). If the final wiring to the outlet is lower rated than the main circuit it must be suitably protected at the point of origin or the whole circuit down rated from the consumer unit.

Most alterations to existing installations require a Minor Works Certificate but often in private property this does not happen.

Hope I haven't  bored everyone

Brian

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, tthomson said:

I looked into what was required to qualify, and there was no way to take the exam unless you had attended a 3 year training course, and paid the annual fee.

Not true Tony, I did the course in 2 weeks to gain my city & guilds and Part P qualification when I was between jobs. Time-served electricians had to do the same course. We were all amused that I was better 'qualified' but had little experience.

Jerry

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18 hours ago, jerrytr5 said:

Not true Tony, I did the course in 2 weeks to gain my city & guilds and Part P qualification when I was between jobs. Time-served electricians had to do the same course. We were all amused that I was better 'qualified' but had little experience.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

That's interesting. Whenever I looked it did not offer that option. Whereabouts did you take the 2 week course?

TT

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I don't think you gain anything from just passing the part P exam for occasional work or DIY Tony.  It seems that to be able to self-certify, you still have to join an accredited certification body who charge a joining fee and annual membership, plus assessment visits - probably well over a thousand per year all told.

 

 

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Rob is totally correct part P exam on its own is of no use at all ,registration with an accredited certification body is required to complete a valid test certificate, which  now along with yearly calibration of test equipment etc  now costs well over a thousand per year.

Part P was originally introduced to curb the antics of cowboy kitchen and bathroom fitters following a whole raft of dangerous electrical work and fires in domestic properties. The idea being to bring some regulation into that area and hopefully forcing those companies to use only qualified electrical people.

Not sure how effective this has been as in practice as  only a very small sample of work can be inspected by these certification bodies and within the private domestic sector usually certification is only asked to be seen when a property is sold.

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On 1/29/2021 at 11:47 AM, tthomson said:

Hi Jerry,

That's interesting. Whenever I looked it did not offer that option. Whereabouts did you take the 2 week course?

TT

https://www.proactivetechnicaltraining.co.uk/beginner-courses/domestic-electrical-installer-training-courses/

Rob is right though, you then need to join a professional body and get your first install inspected. Part P doesn't apply if you work on your own property though, only if you are working on someone elses. At least I think that is right.

Jerry

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