pfenlon Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) Just started to track the front wheels now my wheels are painted and have tyres fitted. The pics are poor (No flash) but the wheels are in a 1/8" toe in position, but the track rod arms seem way to far OUT of the track rod ends, are there longer track rod ends available??the nuts are in the same position that they were when the old ends were removed and scrapped. Where am I going wrong here car was LHD, but the rack is from a RHD TR4. Edited January 21, 2021 by pfenlon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ctc77965o Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) Can you set toe-in without the suspension fully weighted? I would imagine the geometry is not perfect ...i know my car exhibits some bump steer. By the look of your suspension its in the extreme rebound 'poise'...i would guess that makes a big difference. http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-articles.aspx?item=8162 Edited January 22, 2021 by ctc77965o Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, ctc77965o said: Can you set toe-in without the suspension fully weighted? I would imagine the geometry is not perfect ...i know my car exhibits some bump steer. By the look of your suspension its in the extreme rebound 'poise'...i would guess that makes a big difference. http://www.longacreracing.com/technical-articles.aspx?item=8162 Or message me with your e mail address and I'll send you my bump steer article on how to set your car up in your garage so that your toe in remains constant under suspension changes and eliminate your bump steer...sent to over 140 TR owners and counting, costs ?... about £1 for materials. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) With the car jacked the track rod arms are not horizontal but guide down, this is a longer way and in this case they seem to be too short. You can imagine the triangle? The car on its wheels the rod is the adjacent, the vertikal lenght down is zero. But with the car jacked it become to be the longer hypotenuse? Means: the toe in and out is also not always the same while you are driving and the suspension is in action. A better construction would use rods as long as possible. This changes the length of the hypotenuse relatively less. I have already seen that at cars from the 40-ies, have to look for photos if wanted - or others do... But this is "releativ" if the suspension has only little way to travel. Edited January 22, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SeidelVC69 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Are you sure you have a TR4 rack? You might have a TR4A-6 rack. The TR4A-6 rod arms are 1/2 inch shorter comparad to the earlier ones. Dieter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 BTW: your rods are old? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 You cant set the tracking without the car being fully laden and with suspension settled fully on the road for a bit first then it must be down on its wheels. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 hours ago, SeidelVC69 said: Are you sure you have a TR4 rack? You might have a TR4A-6 rack. The TR4A-6 rod arms are 1/2 inch shorter comparad to the earlier ones. Dieter +1 Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 well with the car on its wheels the problem remains, rack is 39 1/2" long, suspect the rack now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, pfenlon said: well with the car on its wheels the problem remains, rack is 39 1/2" long, suspect the rack now. TR4 rack is 1023mm and TR4a is 1003mm. Stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, pfenlon said: well with the car on its wheels the problem remains, rack is 39 1/2" long, suspect the rack now. That's a TR4A rack then. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 hour ago, pfenlon said: well with the car on its wheels the problem remains, rack is 39 1/2" long, suspect the rack now. At Cox & Buckles, Harberson Road in Balham I marked two felt tip pen marrks on the counter to check exchange steering racks against, so the customer got back the same length rack assembly as they had brought in for exchange. I had been caught out once too often by this issue. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) How come 4, & 4A racks are different lengths ? are the track rod ends different as well ? Bob Edited January 22, 2021 by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lebro said: How come 4, & 4A racks are different lengths ? are the track rod ends different as well ? Bob When I fitted negative camber blocks to my TR4 I found that one TRE bottomed out before I got it tracked correctly. I sorted it out by centring the rack and steering wheel which gave me just, but only just, enough free play to get the tracking right. I guess that the IRS cars have a shorter rack to take account of the fact that they are running negative rather than the TR4s one degree positive camber. Edited January 22, 2021 by Drewmotty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Lebro said: How come 4, & 4A racks are different lengths ? are the track rod ends different as well ? Bob Steering levers changed and the rack mounting was moved. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 How deep are the rods in the rod ends? Lenght = diameter is deep enought in my opinion, please realize: a nut is shorter than 1 x diameter. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pfenlon Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Dieter was on the money, the steer arms are different in length, see pic. It does tell you the difference in the Moss Book, had I but looked. Again TR Bitz 2018 came to the rescue with regards to parts, they do go the extra mile. But with all the valuable advice read here on the subject I did find it odd that the toe "IN" remained the same with the car on axle stands, or on it wheels? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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