ianc Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 About 1966/1967 the first single filament Quartz Iodine (QI) bulbs became available, and I drove from Esher to somewhere near Ingatestone to purchase a pair, which I fitted into my TR2's spotlamps. Iodine is a halogen, so the units later became Quartz Halogen. Later (before 1969, I'm sure), dual filament QI bulbs became available, so those went into the TR2's headlamps. They certainly made a deal of difference in quality of light output for the same wattage, and made night driving much easier, particularly with all 4 lamps illuminated when on full beam. Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spyder dryver Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, ianc said: About 1966/1967 the first single filament Quartz Iodine (QI) bulbs became available, and I drove from Esher to somewhere near Ingatestone to purchase a pair, which I fitted into my TR2's spotlamps. Iodine is a halogen, so the units later became Quartz Halogen. Later (before 1969, I'm sure), dual filament QI bulbs became available, so those went into the TR2's headlamps. They certainly made a deal of difference in quality of light output for the same wattage, and made night driving much easier, particularly with all 4 lamps illuminated when on full beam. Ian Cornish Your post brings to mind the scene in the Italian Job where they were fitting spot lamps to the Minis in preparation for the heist. Charlie enquires " Are they quartz iodine?" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Hello Nigel Are you a Magistrate, by any chance? 3 hours ago, Bleednipple said: ...Per sentencing guidelines, starting point is Band A fine (=50% of a week's income). .. ...And if you'd accepted the FPN as offered by the police you'd just be 100 quid out of pocket... Totally unfair. The policeman should first enquire what my week’s income was, and if (as is true) I told him £ £134.25 (Basic State pension), he should explain it would be cheaper to go to court and pay the fine. But it still doesn’t explain why the piece of paper says “MOT” on top. Ernest Marples used to be Minister of Transport (1959–1964.) There used to be graffiti on a bridge over the M1 that read “Marples must go !!!) Well…. Marples eventually did go. And it’s about time the expression “Ministry of Transport” went the same way. (It just makes the English legal system more complicated to understand for people like Marco’s “Friend”) Your Honour, I rest my case. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Would anyone be wiser if it was called a VOSA test? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bleednipple Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Charlie D said: Totally unfair. The policeman should first enquire what my week’s income was, and if (as is true) I told him £ £134.25 (Basic State pension), he should explain it would be cheaper to go to court and pay the fine. Ah but sadly no, you'd still have been better to take that £100 ticket. In court, in addition to your probable half-week fine (£67 on the income you helpfully and no doubt honestly declared) you'd have to pay a 'victim surcharge' of £34 (yes I know, who's the victim?) and in addition whatever the Crown prosecutor requests in prosecution costs and the bench deems reasonable - £85 for a guilty plea hearing is standard at present. Do the maths... And you've also picked up a criminal conviction, although unlike most traffic offences having no test certificate is non-endorsable so you'll keep your snowy white licence clean. But of course if you'd been driving your >40 year old TR the whole thing wouldn't have arisen anyway as no MOT test required. The above does not constitute legal advice. Drive safely! N Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slantfour Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Regardless of any tribulations at my friendly MOT station I intend to upgrade the headlamps in both my TR6 & 7. When I bought my 7 back in 1986, the previous owner had upgraded the original sealed beam units for Cibie H4 headlamps. Over the years I concluded that they were below expectations , and purchased a pair of round fronted Lucas units to replace them. At the time my neighbours son worked at Hella Banbury and he tested both in their lab. He confirmed that the Cibie units had a poor beam patten and the Lucas ones, fitted to Jaguar XJ6 models were quite reasonable. The Cibie units were thrown away, this was pre eBay days, and the Lucas replacements have remained in place fitted with quality H4 lamps. Over the last ten plus years my normal daily drivers have been fitted with HID and latterly LED headlamps. They are significantly better than the Lucas H4 halogen units. Viewing the more sensible videos on YouTube explained the obvious, lamp brightness is only part of the story. The bit that really counts is the beam pattern generated. You want maximum useable brightness with light projected in all the right places Other motorists should not be dazzled Tests conducted have been with either projector or reflector type units. Our headlamps use the traditional fresnel lines, so this may affect to resultant output. Question is what are the recommended H4 LED lamps to use, I don't mind spending £135 a pair for the super duper Philips Ultinon if they deliver a superior solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndyR100 Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Classic Car LED’s have a good reputation for selling good quality H4 LED headlamp bulbs. ....... Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 24 minutes ago, Slantfour said: I don't mind spending £135 a pair for the super duper Philips Ultinon if they deliver a superior solution? Theyre noted as being "Off road only" Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 I raised the question of LED bulbs with my MOT man last Thursday. I explained that they have passed his beam pattern test for the last two years and appear not to dazzle on coming traffic. I also mentioned that the MOT rules have changed but not the Lighting regs. He said if it passes the tests then he is happy. He is not allowed to remove anything to get a look at the bulbs to see what they are, and put old defunct cars are outside of manufacturers legislation. So the result is- go for it but don't go silly. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytr5 Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Well done Roger, more or less what my MOT man has said before the new edit in January and I expect him to pass mine again as the beam pattern is right. I used Classic Car Led headlights and they are ace. Regards Harry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slantfour Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 36 minutes ago, stuart said: Theyre noted as being "Off road only" Stuart. I think that just keeps the onus on the consumer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Slantfour said: I think that just keeps the onus on the consumer Up to the point where a bored copper gives you a tug.Or someone coming the other way gets inadvertently blinded by your really bright lights and hits you and your insurance company at the end of the subsequent investigation refuses to pay out. Stuart. Edited February 15, 2021 by stuart Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Well around here mot testers have been told if not fitted as standard fail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Hi Neil, that is the point of this discussion. Firstly how would an MOT tester know that an LED bulb is fitted - it may not be clearly visible through the front glass Secondly the ruling is very ambiguous as to who they are trying to regulate. As mentioned TRiumph cars are n longer legislated y the manufacturer and did not have limitations on their bulbs other than that in the Lighting regulations. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 What a topic full of can you can't you as an ex mot tester theres a mine field of grey areas relating to testing a vehicle. As already stated you not allowed to dismantle anything to check what's fitted or what's lurking underneath this trim or what's this hiding. With regard to led bulbs I would think you would just be able to make them out through the headlamp glass so to me fail, not because they are not fit for purpose but because if fitted then there should also be a self levelling device fitted (there's one reason for rejection for a start and there's more), and if there is a unexpected vosa inspection visit and the examiner finds a tester has pass something he shouldn't who's the one in trouble its not the owner and as Stuart says if there's a insurance claim with (hopefully not) personal injury attached will they pay out? Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stillp Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, trchris said: if fitted then there should also be a self levelling device fitted Isn't that HID headlamps? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) Hi Pete Yes it is and also led this is a section from the manual that may be relevant to all halogen headlamps should not be converted to be used with HID or LED bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp. Chris Edited February 15, 2021 by trchris correcting info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RogerH Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Hi Chris, the original bulbs fitted to the TR's were filament bubs filled with Argon gas. Over the years most have been upgraded to Halogen/Xenon. However any accreditation given to TRiumph on the design would have been for the standard at the time which was Argon bulbs. The TRs are beyond these controls. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Chris, the original bulbs fitted to the TR's were filament bubs filled with Argon gas. Over the years most have been upgraded to Halogen/Xenon. However any accreditation given to TRiumph on the design would have been for the standard at the time which was Argon bulbs. The TRs are beyond these controls. Roger Roger Insurance company’s will tell you your okay however there will be a test case at sometime no doubt,I hope that you and all have your paperwork correct on all counts and Chris is correct there is more to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robin Powell Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 I fitted warm white LED bulbs in Valeo units and they look like the output from sealed beam units which would have been fitted originally but brighter. My MOT tester didn't realise they were LEDs and as the beam pattern was very good he was happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slantfour Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Just published today, our cars (Class IV) can have either LED or HID headlamps and pass the MoT test from Monday next week. I have also checked with the TR Register insurance brokers, they are happy with LED lamps including headlights provided they do not feature BMW style Angel Eyes. I chose Philips Ultinon units as their colour temperature matches OE units and are not too blue, they appear to be very effective. Once we escape lock down I will test them on the MoT Beam Tester and report back MOT special notice 01-21: headlamp conversions Published 19 March 2021 1. About headlamp conversions Section 4.1.4 of the current MOT inspection manuals for both motorcycles and cars and passenger vehicles states ‘Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.’ 2. Changes to current rules From 22 March 2021, we’re changing these rules so that not all motorcycles and vehicles will fail the MOT test if their halogen headlamp units have been converted to be used with HID or LED bulbs. Class 1 and 2 motorcycles Class 1 and 2 motorcycles must not be failed for the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’. Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim. The motorcycle inspection manual will be updated shortly, and the ability to select the defect within the MOT testing service will be removed. Class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles For class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles, the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986. Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect. Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed. Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim. The cars and passenger vehicles inspection manual will be updated shortly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 Great news, so I hope that ends all the fuss about LED bulbs being illegal ! Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trchris Posted March 19, 2021 Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 +1 Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slantfour Posted July 7, 2021 Report Share Posted July 7, 2021 Have recently tested the LED equipped headlamps on the MoT Testing Bay and they achieve a pass on the beam pattern. I did take a picture but the light reflected in the the beam tester was too bright for my phone camera. Acid test will be in the autumn when the nights draw in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slantfour Posted September 2, 2021 Report Share Posted September 2, 2021 With the evenings drawing in, yesterday I took the 7 out for a drive in total darkness. The Philips Ultinon LED lamps were very impressive and I fully recommend them. MOT test was done and passed a couple of weeks ago and the beam pattern fully complied with the required specification. The white light cuts through the dark and provides clear and bright illumination with the emphasis on the left hand kerbside. No other motorist flashed either! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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