stuart Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Here we go again, Yes the Moss seal is too long but its designed like that and they spent a long time getting the spec right for this, centre the rubber to the glass and the excess should be equalised at each bottom corner so that when fitted the rubber goes all the way down into each corner of the frame, if you fit a shorter rubber you will be able to see daylight through each corner. I does work not only on an original but also on a Honeybourne if you go down the route of fitting a glass window in one of them. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod Mac Posted January 13, 2021 Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 Thank you Stuart, sure you've said that many times but it's good to have the reassurance that the Moss seal is good. I'm having another crack at it later today and, from what you say, I now understand that I distribute the excess to the two "front lower" corners. FYI I attach a pic of its current state (showing the excess at the back) before I redistribute it. I just didn't appreciate that I need to fit the glass/seal assembly to the frame with the seal a bit "flappy" at those corners. I expected the seal to be snugly on the glass before attaching to the frame. The idea then is, during frame attachment, to push the seal firmly into those corners on the frame and the glass should (somehow) follow suit and it ends up looking like your pic! Thanks to all for their support, I'll update asap Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod Mac Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Update. I moved the slack toward the corners and equalised as much as possible. Then added cord, lubed and started pushing into the frame. I had two abortive efforts starting from the top centre so tried starting bottom centre and it seemed to work better (although that may be luck). It's in. Not great, but it's in. I had a lot of trouble with the top right corner, which wouldn't sit down and seat properly in the frame. Even now the right side only just "lips over" the frame on the inside in that bottom corner. Plus both bottom glass corners aren't seated properly into the seal channel meaning I have a tiny gap (see pic of one side, but the other is much the same). At this point I'm hoping someone says "leave it a day or two and it will settle a bit more". My theory is that the heavy glass plus gravity will mean it sinks in a little. That's probably more desperate hope than science though. In the meantime I'll do some fine adjustments to the seal here and there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) The problem with gravity is that it slows time down so if you don't mind waiting until another pearl of wisdom comes up, leave it alone. On a more pragmatic note, suction pads might help in pushing/pulling the glass in the corners. Edited January 16, 2021 by Geko Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod Mac Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Thanks Geko Yes time is not my friend, considering the backlight has already occupied the dining table for a week already. Wife not impressed but kids happy. Mind you the hard top is currently leaning on the bedroom wall. I think I have some suction cups somewhere, they should give me more jiggle power. Little by little I think it is settling a bit. Thanks Rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 They do always go in from the bottom or else your struggling to drag the corners in too far, it looks as if you may have stretched the rubber a bit too much, I would leave it for tonight and then tease the rubber backwards a bit to get it to pull up a bit more. you may actually have the glass over slightly too much to the left, a few slaps across with the flat of your hand may help to centralise it. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jase Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Looks like revival motorsport are going to remanufacture metal backlights. They are looking for 12 customers to commit to the project - £1325 for the frame Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rod Mac Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Thanks Stuart, no wonder top-down was sub-optimal. I feel that things are gradually jiggling in the right direction. Suspect you're right about the stretching. I didn't use a lot of lube putting it in but am now adding and fiddling and feel a lot better about it. I need to clean my nice new vinyl trim now, slightly grubby from all the shoving. Hope there is good takeup on the new units. I plan to keep the hardtop on permanently. Like the look and far more practical in Scotland. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 19 hours ago, Rod Mac said: Thanks Stuart, no wonder top-down was sub-optimal. I feel that things are gradually jiggling in the right direction. Suspect you're right about the stretching. I didn't use a lot of lube putting it in but am now adding and fiddling and feel a lot better about it. I need to clean my nice new vinyl trim now, slightly grubby from all the shoving. Hope there is good takeup on the new units. I plan to keep the hardtop on permanently. Like the look and far more practical in Scotland. I run mine with the roof on all the time as I like the closed coupe feel plus it does stiffen the car up a bit. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Ok so the Honeybourne backlight arrived, very smart. I've got it positioned reasonably well, it seems to sit on the rear deck ok (seal removed so I can check in case anyone points that out :)), and removed the front pair of studs which are not required for the 4a with its waisted deck (pic 2). I discussed this with their workshop manager and he didn't realise that 4a customers were cutting this out, so hopefully in the future they will ask customers if they want those studs left off (seems a bit obvious to me). The door window glass seems to line up ok (pic 3) and the previous advice regarding seal fitting should work fine, if fitting the metal channel to the inside edge of that front face, do you pop rivet or self tap screws into the GRP? My only initial problem is that where the front of the backlight sits on the B post, it seems to be sitting high, leaving a gap, in fact the front 1/4" stud which is screwed into the top of the B post only just pokes through the hole in the inside of the backlight so something isn't right. Have people had to trim the front bottom edge of the backlight frame to get it to sit down more snugly on the deck? Many thanks David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Yes of course you will need to trim it all over the place. It's a moulded item so nothing like an original part ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Also remember the studs all around have a thickish rubber doughnut between the frame and the bodywork, so it won't sit exactly onto the steel panels flush. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerrytr5 Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Don't you just love the way this is titled "Quick backlight question" and it's on to page 2. Jerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: Also remember the studs all around have a thickish rubber doughnut between the frame and the bodywork, so it won't sit exactly onto the steel panels flush. Mick Richards I had looked at the moss /rimmer catalogues which only list a fibre /flat washer, revingtons mention something more substantial, but it has been superseded by a polybush, really?? Any other suggestions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, qkingston said: Any other suggestions? Yeah: Don't be too pedantic... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Thanks for your help Stef Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 9:17 AM, Geko said: Yeah: Don't be too pedantic... Sorry but your comparing chalk with cheese Steph, my picture of the blue frame is a genuine Surrey rear frame, the lower white one is a fibre Honeybourne one and their window is a totally different fit. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 3:36 PM, qkingston said: Ok so the Honeybourne backlight arrived, very smart. I've got it positioned reasonably well, it seems to sit on the rear deck ok (seal removed so I can check in case anyone points that out :)), and removed the front pair of studs which are not required for the 4a with its waisted deck (pic 2). I discussed this with their workshop manager and he didn't realise that 4a customers were cutting this out, so hopefully in the future they will ask customers if they want those studs left off (seems a bit obvious to me). The door window glass seems to line up ok (pic 3) and the previous advice regarding seal fitting should work fine, if fitting the metal channel to the inside edge of that front face, do you pop rivet or self tap screws into the GRP? My only initial problem is that where the front of the backlight sits on the B post, it seems to be sitting high, leaving a gap, in fact the front 1/4" stud which is screwed into the top of the B post only just pokes through the hole in the inside of the backlight so something isn't right. Have people had to trim the front bottom edge of the backlight frame to get it to sit down more snugly on the deck? Many thanks David It looks also as it the frame needs drawing in towards the middle of the car a little at the front that way it may fit a bit better, Ive not seen one with that "Ear" at the front lower of the frame either. Heres one I had a few years ago. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
qkingston Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Thanks Stuart, and for the rear seal, I know you have mentioned 2 possibles from Seals Direct either 1987 or 1972, any preference for the Honeybourne? Rgds David Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, qkingston said: Thanks Stuart, and for the rear seal, I know you have mentioned 2 possibles from Seals Direct either 1987 or 1972, any preference for the Honeybourne? Rgds David Depends on how good a fit to the rear deck it is, the bigger one is often a better fit with the thicker lower lip on the fibre one. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geko Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 43 minutes ago, stuart said: Sorry but your comparing chalk with cheese Steph, my picture of the blue frame is a genuine Surrey rear frame, the lower white one is a fibre Honeybourne one and their window is a totally different fit. Stuart. That's what I meant: Can't compare an original like yours with a moulded frame, let alone trying to get the same fit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Just now, Geko said: That's what I meant: Can't compare an original like yours with a moulded frame, let alone trying to get the same fit Managed it with my Honeybourne rear section. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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