TR4A = wheel colour

[rvwp]

Hi Guys,

The wheels that came on my 1966 TR4A project car were silver coloured, looks like original factory paint.

I am keeping the wheels with  hub caps as this is how it left the factory. However, I am not sure whether they are the correct colour as I believe that TR4A wheels may have been  off white.

My chassis number is CTC64206 first registered 1st Feb 1966.  Roger Williams excellent ' How to restore Triumph TR4 & TR4A' do not mention wheel colour.

Any guidance appreciated.

Thanks 

Rich

[Andy303]

Bill Piggot's Original Triumph TR states that "disc wheels were finished in silver lacquer or aluminium wheel paint".

 

However there was service bulletin in 1962 issued to dealers in the US about a change to Spa White. Discussed here:

I think later cars soon reverted back to silver, but owners may have changed colours over the years. You can check the wheels for evidence of a respray, or remove a tire and see what colour is inside the wheel.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Andy303

[tr graham]

I have a very original set in brown 

graham

[rvwp]

Thanks for the replies.

On checking many photo's of TR4/4A's on the web, although most seem to have wire wheels, original or after market, in the main they are silver.

I am therefore assuming that the wheels that came with the car are original and silver. So that is what is what I shall maintain. The car is its original Wedgewood blue and in my view the silver looks better than off white anyway with that colour.

Rich

 

[Besalu]

Rich, I am about to do the same job. The wheels need blasting and re-painting silver. Can i ask did you use any specific paint?

I am also considering having the original hub caps blasted and re-chromed. I know this would work out more expensive than just buying new caps but i would prefer to keep the original ones. Has any member done this before and was it worthwhile?

Thanks, Richard

[Besalu]

Rather than having the wheels sprayed silver i have seen some images of wheels in Spa White which i really like. Can anyone recommend a vendor that supplies this colour as close as possible to the original? Thanks, Richard

[Tom Boyd]

11 minutes ago, Besalu said:

Rather than having the wheels sprayed silver i have seen some images of wheels in Spa White which i really like. Can anyone recommend a vendor that supplies this colour as close as possible to the original? Thanks, Richard

Subaru Performance/Pure White is pretty close. Think the code is 51H

Tom

[stuart]

3 hours ago, Besalu said:

Rich, I am about to do the same job. The wheels need blasting and re-painting silver. Can i ask did you use any specific paint?

I am also considering having the original hub caps blasted and re-chromed. I know this would work out more expensive than just buying new caps but i would prefer to keep the original ones. Has any member done this before and was it worthwhile?

Thanks, Richard

Dont have the caps blasted as they will have too rough a finish when chromed, just give them to the chromers as is their process will sort them out.

Stuart.

[rcreweread]

 I have a very original 1965 TR4A which has been dry stored since 1981 and that has white wheels, not silver. I am 99% confident they are original as the spare wheel is the same colour, but they are NOT Spa White, and I can say this with a degree of confidence because my TR4 is Spa White and the 4A wheels are a much creamier white  - in fact the car (4A) is Triumph New White and the wheels look very similar in colour to the body colour.

Make of that what you will!

Cheers Rich

Edited December 15, 2023 by rcreweread
correct misinformation

[Spit_2.5PI]

It's been asked several times over on the TSSC forum as to which silver Triumph used in the 60's & 70's. The TSSC club shop do a rattle can silver which they say is accurate. However, some people have claimed that Triumph just used whatever silver they had and it changed from time to time! Others have claimed that Ford "Argent" silver is an accurate match.

Me? I have no idea. But I'd very much like to know.

Cheers, Richard

[Besalu]

Thank you all for your input. Rich, do you have a pic handy? Piggott just says "....a shade of cream..."

 

[qkingston]

This was what I believe was the original wheel colour on my US import 4a,if that's any help

David 

[RAHTR4]

Hi,

All TR's up to and including the TR4A were fitted with 4J x 15 steel wheels.

The 4.1/2J x 15 steel wheel was introduced with the TR5.

Factory records show that the steel wheels on the TR4 were changed in colour from Silver Aluminium to Spa White on 28th December 1962.

This change was made at the request of the Sales Department.

I have no knowledge of the paint colour for the TR4A steel wheels.

Regards, Richard

 

[arallsopp]

On 1/1/2021 at 7:53 AM, rvwp said:

Thanks for the replies.

On checking many photo's of TR4/4A's on the web, although most seem to have wire wheels, original or after market, in the main they are silver.

I am therefore assuming that the wheels that came with the car are original and silver. So that is what is what I shall maintain. The car is its original Wedgewood blue and in my view the silver looks better than off white anyway with that colour.

Rich

 

Based upon my 4A from 1966, the wheels remain silver.

https://arallsopp.github.io/colouriser/?b=C2DEF4

 

[Besalu]

18 hours ago, rcreweread said:

 I have a very original 1965 TR4A which has been dry stored since 1981 and that has white wheels, not silver. I am 99% confident they are original as the spare wheel is the same colour, but they are NOT Spa White, and I can say this with a degree of confidence because my TR4 is Spa White and the 4A wheels are a much creamier white  - in fact the car (4A) is Triumph white and the wheels look very similar in colour to the body colour.

Make of that what you will!

Cheers Rich

Rich, has your TR4 been resprayed recently? do you think the difference in colour from the wheels on your 64 4a and your TR4 body colour could be the wheel paint "ageing"? Any difference in colour between the spare and the others? The document Richard posted above pretty much confirms the paint used was Spa white.

 

[rcreweread]

On 11/8/2023 at 7:50 AM, Besalu said:

Rich, has your TR4 been resprayed recently? do you think the difference in colour from the wheels on your 64 4a and your TR4 body colour could be the wheel paint "ageing"? Any difference in colour between the spare and the others? The document Richard posted above pretty much confirms the paint used was Spa white.

 

We are at risk here of getting confused - my 1965 4A is in it's original colour of Triumph New White and all the steel wheels ( including the spare) look the same colour as the bodyshell. My 1962 TR4 was rebuilt and resprayed in 2012 back to it's original colour of Spa White ( and has refurbed wires so not relevant here) - I was given the exact paint code for Spa white by the late Clive Manvers - Spa White is a much purer whiter white than Triumph New White which is creamier than Spa White but not as creamy as other classics of the period in Old English White.

Spa White and Triumph New White are very obviously and clearly different such that you can't confuse them.

Richard (RAHTR4) provides top class info, but relating to the TR4, and it's logical to assume that ST painted the wheels in the same colour white as the prevailing "white" colour for the model.

Arallsopp has then provided evidence of the silver wheel colour on his 1966 4A    - my 4A is a 1965 model so I'm guessing, along the same lines as for the TR4, ST could have used their paint stocks of Triumph New White to paint 4A wheels until they appear to have changed to silver sometime later for 1966 vehicles.

I will try and get a photo to post later.

Also good to see the steel wheel size clarified that the 4 1/2 J only came in for the TR5 and not as often misquoted for the earlier cars

Cheers Rich 

Edited December 15, 2023 by rcreweread

[arallsopp]

Thanks for the clarification @rcreweread. Good post!

Yes, part the fun of these old cars is the lack of standards adhesion, and the conflation of "as defined on the spec sheet", "as it came out the factory" and "as it came out of the dealership" makes "correct" a bit of a roving target.

I write this as an owner of a very late Spitfire4  

[rcreweread]

As requested, here are some photos of one of the wheels on my 1965 4A with a part of a wing of the same colour in the photo, which is Triumph New White

Cheers Rich

Edited December 15, 2023 by rcreweread
Correct Misinformation

[Besalu]

Thanks Rich for going to the trouble of explaining in detail and for posting the photos.

So, next step for me is to buy a tin of paint. Tom kindly suggests Subaru Performance/Pure White is pretty close. Think the code is 51H

I will go with this unless any other suggestions just to confuse me even more

 

[Besalu]

Me again! have been looking into the merits of powder coating rather than wet painting. I must admit i have never done either and powder coating does sound good. However i just read this on the TR6 forum:

Don't waste your time getting them powder coated.

Steel wheels were originally painted and the paint gets into the joint between the inner disc part and the rim. It's almost impossible, in fact it is impossible, to remove all vestiges of paint from this area.

The powder coat process involves a considerable amount of heat to cure the powder and this process causes the remnants of paint to bubble and react with the result that they look fantastic except for the rim/disc contact area.

How ever many times you take them back, it's very unlikely that you can sort this.

Sorry to disappoint!

Is this the general consensus?

[RAHTR4]

Hi,

I decided to re-visit this matter as having researched it many years ago I then remembered that I had subsequently accumulated more Factory information in relation to paintwork which I had not fully reviewed.

Having now checked this information it appears that the actual date of implementing this colour change is the key to confirming the actual shade of White which was used.

Bill Piggott tells us that the initial production run of any White TR4’s were painted in Spar White until car CT 21495 was manufactured in March of 1963 at which point the colour was changed to New White which remained so until the end of TR4 production.

The New White colour was then used for the entire TR4A production run.

As I have previously demonstrated on 28th December 1962 the Standard-Triumph Motor Company, Inc, Western Zone informed its Dealers that the colour of the steel wheels would be changed from Silver Aluminium to Spa White commencing in March 1963.

The actual change was implemented within the Factory by the issue of Engineering Change Number EC / 6321 dated 28.3.63. where the Description of Change is stated as being :

Road Wheels changed in Colour to White. (Sales request) Disc Wheels Only.

It should be noted that the colour is stated as being White, however no mention is made of the shade.

Knowing that Spa White paint ceased to used in March 1963 to be replaced by New White it seems logical that the Factory would have applied New White to the steel wheels.

The only reason I can think of as to why the Factory might apply Spa White to the steel wheels would be to use up any existing paint which was in stock at that time, it must be remembered Standard–Triumph never wasted anything.......!!!!!!

Any further thoughts would be most welcome.

Regards, Richard

[stuart]

The factory would definitely have used up any stocks of anything left over as they never had any money.

Stuart.

[rcreweread]

To avoid confusion in the future by those reading this thread, I am guilty of misleading people by calling the "other" white colour in the thread "Triumph White" when I should have been referring to this as "New White"  - I have gone through the thread amending this incorrect info but I can't edit a post when it has been quoted by another poster, so please be aware of this

Cheers Rich

[Besalu]

I just thought i would upload a few pics of my freshly painted wheels. I had them sand blasted and then i painted them myself with spray cans i bought off the internet. It was the first time i had ever attempted anything like this and i am happy with the outcome. i used 3 cans of primer, 3 cans of paint and one can of lacquer. (i have no affiliation with any of the paint companies )

Pics were from yesterday, a sunny Xmas day here in Catalonia

[Ralph Whitaker]

Your wheels look great, but from experience it is impossible to get paint right into the crack between the inner and outer parts of the wheel, and rust will appear after time. To prevent this I use an aerosol clear cavity wax ( a sort of thinner version of waxoyl) which seems to have good "searching" properties. Spray this into the join and leave for a day to harden, then remove the excess, a cloth with a little white spirit works for me but try a small area behind your hubcap first. It shouldn`t affect your paint. Doing this should encapsulate any rust or shot debris deep down in the crack and prevent water getting in and encouraging rust.

Just for information, now I always get my steel wheels blasted and powder coated, however, as with painting, it is impossible to get the powder coat right down into the crack, and it was my coaters that reccomended waxoyl . They have the same problem with scroll work on gates, railings etc.

Ralph