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Electrically Operated Door Windows for TR4-6


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Hi Folks,

about 15 years ago I started a project that now keeps evolving. 

In 2005 SWMBO caught the lurgy and found it difficult leaning forward and then winding the window winder.  She told me to sort it out:o

I went off to the scrap yard and had a look round ad came back with a couple of Nissan motors  

I had this idea of fitting the motors where the handle went. This would cause less work inside the door and be accessible for any later mods.

The motor had to be modified so that it would fit over the regulator spindle (this will be explained in later rambling).

I spent ages making very neat covers to go around the motors in Stainless and leather - no expense spared when you are in the shed.

Here are a couple of pics of the motor attached to a dummy door card.

In order to play with the proto-type I bought a tatty door that later came in handy for more experimentation 

In this configuration the motor raised the regulator nice and quick. However when I put the glass in it all came to a grinding halt. 

Even with the regulator spring to counterbalance the glass weight it was too much to raise.

Head scratching time.

 

I had a look at the internet and Ebay and found that there were kits out there - not expensive, so worth a TRy.

The one I bought was a 'Steelemann' product. It sounded German so must be good:blink:

This kit is basically the same motor that I had but with a cable operation all enclosed  so it was quite simple to install - nearly.

At the regulator end there were a selection of adaptors to go over the regulator spindle and hook up tot he cable gizzmo.

It all looked very promising

See the attached pics - 

The first shows the motor installed and the cable going up to the regulator

The next shows the attachment at the regulator -it is amazing that TRiumph left gaps in the regulator body to allow such things to happen

The next pic shows (nearly) the adaptor at the regulator

After spending quite a while on this kit it was relegated to the shelf never to be touched again.  It simply didn't have the strength t lift the window with glass fitted.

These first two attempts used a direct drive from motor to regulator. It would give a good speed but had no power to do the business.

 

Tomorrow I shall go through the next stage of evolution.

 

Rogre

 

 

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I think Racetorations already did this to some cars, I believe they used the whole winder/lift mechanism from something else.

Stuart.

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Roger,

I fitted Volvo units inside a Herald’s doors many years ago.
There was no problem with the motors not being powerful enough.

The problem I had was that I did not bother to fit limit switches and if you did'nt switch the motor off soon enough when going down, the metal bar at the bottom of the window would press on the metal “stop bracket” so hard it would bend the inner skin of the door inwards by about an inch.

Limit switches are such a hassle though to fit and adjust.

Charlie.

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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi Stuart,

I think your are right. I'm sure they used a modern style cable winch type lifter.

I decided to stick with the gears and belts idea.

 

Roger

The Audi units are a complete self contained one with a wire rope, you could try looking at that.

Stuart.

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13 minutes ago, stuart said:

The Audi units are a complete self contained one with a wire rope, you could try looking at that.

Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

I don't need the Audi on as I now have my own - read on.

 

Roger

Edited by RogerH
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Hi Roger,

I have fully operating electric window mechanisms in my TR4A. I fitted them about 15 years ago. I did not use the existing winder mechanisms since they were shot and I was looking to replace them.

The mechanism I ended up with has a single Lifting track, that is approximately at the centre of the door. I designed the electronics to control the windows around a PIC microchip, and they have been working ever since I installed them. The units require limit switches for top and bottom, but otherwise they fit very easily in the door. The biggest issue was fitting cables to bring the window controls to a central console over the transmission tunnel.

If you PM me I can provide more details.

Tony

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I love this forum. I just wish more people would come forward with their mods and work-arounds! Sadly I have little to contribute iunless you want to use a RATOG switch to control your electric fan!

John

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5 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Thread diversion alert - What is a RATOG switch

 

Roger

Same as many ADTWR that are used these days that just cause aggravation. GMD ?

Mick Richards

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Roger, Chapter 7, 'Project Binky',  Bad Obsession MotorSport electric window fitting to their mini, includes central locking!!  Looks a very nifty setup, along with everything else they do, no half measures!! Cheers, Andrew

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Hi Folks,

Thanks for all your comments.

The next incarnation of the Electric glass lifter was to fit the motor inside the door.

The motor that I used on the door card side of the door was attacked and a gear wheel fitted to the spindle hole in the middle

The black part in the middle of the gear wheel is a rubbery cushion (this appears standard in this style of motor)  PIC 5247a

The gear is 20 tooth x 3mm pitch

The motor had a simple attachment (Pic 0002a) - a horseshoe bracket around the body and a bolt through the spindle hole. This allowed the motor to be moved to tension the belt and then be locked in place. The third pic (0009a) shows the tension plate under the door card. The nylok nut is on the end of the spindle bolt

The silver coloured disc on the regulator handle is the 60 tooth x 3mm gear wheel to turn the handle. This is it in pic. 5251a

The motor is located in the forward lower corner where there is just enough room. The motor gear is connected to the regulator gear wheel via a rubber toothed belt.    There is an up stop and down stop microswitch. The up stop (pic 0005a) uses the regulator quadrant to operate it.  The down stop (Pic 0004a) is operated by the lower channel

This combination worked well except that the drivers side motor seized up (old Japanese junk) after too short a while.

The next upgrade was to find a decent motor to replace the duff one. This took some time.   I ended up with a couple of BMW E43 motors.

Slightly smaller than the original ones but much the same style.

I had to break into the gearbox. These were much more substantial than the Japanese ones so needed a bigger hammer. Inside they looked very much the same.

This pic  5248a  shows the pair of E43's with the covers off.  The cream coloured disc on the left had to be remade in Aluminium as I couldn't get the gear wheel to fit correctly.  The black disc on the right hand motor is a rubber cushion. The new Aluminium drive plate (Pic 5285a & 5286a) had to fit into this.  Machining this was fun but worthwhile.

Initially I was running with the 3mm tooth pitch but found it would too easily jump. So I then went for a 5mm pitch. This required that the gears were changed to 12 tooth x 5mm and 35 tooth x 5mm - this gives similar ratio to the previous 20 & 60 tooth gear wheels.

The gearbox was then finished off with a simple lid (Pic 5267a)

The gear wheel on the regulator had to be machined to fit the spindle and give a small amount of clearance. (Pic 5294a)

Changing to 5mm pitch also changed other dimensions on the gear.

Once the regulator and gear were sorted the drive belt was attached and the regulator and all bolted down to the door inner skin.

This pic 8886a is of the original working idea but is the same layout for the final idea.

 

The next installment will be - 'where to put the Switches'

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Folks,

so nobody was impressed with the motor installation. There was more to it than I could show/explain above but the general idea  comes over.

The next challenge was where and how to fit switches.  Usually drilling holes in a burr walnut dash is not on so where !!!!!

My first idea worked quite well, it was to put the switch in  a small metal casing that was screwed to the tunnel and rested up against the lump around the gearstick at knee/thigh level

This was handy but definitely an add-on. Have I got a pic - No!.

My next plan for this incarnation was to make a horseshoe type fixture that fitted around the  gearstick lump  PIC 1 & 2

This functioned well and the seats could move fore/aft and lift up. but looked naff.  It took a lot of effort to make it look naff.

 

So my next effort was to remove the naffness by incorporating the add-on horseshoe into the the vertical legs of the dash support.

To do the next step I needed another Dash support, preferably in a poor condition. A call to the forum came up trumps.

The support was actually in not bad condition but a sacrifice to the car gods was needed.

Firstly the vinyl and foam was removed - Pic 3

Then the gearstick lump was removed Pic 4

That's the vertical legs for a moment except to say I have a plan for the foam covering under the leather.

 

The new lump that goes around the gearstick (we shall call GSL2) is bigger in width and length to allow  many more switches if required.

The basic chassis is plywood. This is easy to fabricate and will be more than strong enough (probably)  Pic 5 & 6

The front of GSL2 will be as wide as the vertical legs with their foam and leather covering - TRust me it looks OK.

Note Pic 6 -  I have tried to reproduce the raised ring around the gear stick hole.

The leather covering for the GSL2 was a problem as I am no upholsterererer. The final result was not bad and will look OK in the car.

Pic 7 below shows the basic covering with the odd wrinkle or two but these were gently teased out during assembly.

We now have a leather covered wooden chassis that looks OK. I decided to have a stainless steel ring around the gearstick hole to help tidy it up.

If you have a lathe it is reasonably straight forward to make the ring. If you have no lathe then it becomes interesting, I have a lathe

The ring starts out as a flat 1mm Stainless steel sheet apprx 6" x 6". This is firmly screwed to a wooden former that has a 95mm hole in the centre with a rounded edge. A 75mm hole is cut into the SS sheet and then a bull nosed brass tool is forced into the SS to take up the shape of the former hole

Ref Pic 8  This produces a ring with an 'L' shaped cross section. This originally looked good but!!   So I made an additional former that would curve the top to form it into a 'J' section - this looked good.  Pic #9   see also a couple more pics of the ring.

The GSL2 is attached to the vertical legs with a couple of M5 screws. Pic 12 shows the lump with the initial 'L' shaped ring

Pic 13 is with the later curved ring 

 

The next step may take a few days as I have to be able to TIG weld well enough to repair the Vertical legs - See you in the new year

 

Roger

 

 

 

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Looks like its going to be a nice job Roger never thought that a lathe could be made to produce the ring you have made by spinning it. Must say I've always fancied one one if I had the space and learn how to use it. The last time was as a 14 year old in metal work class!

As a lathe user what's the smallest model/spec you would recommend for the kind of projects you use it for?

Andy

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Hi Andy,

metal and wood turning lathes are designed for turning metal and wood.  What I am doing is a bit naughty as I am putting a lot stress on the lead screw.

For my occasional use I am happy to do it but it is not to be recommended.

My lathe is a MachineMart Chinese wonder.  Good value for money but you do need to take Vit D3 when using it.

This is the sort of thing I have https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cl430-metal-lathe/  (a lot cheaper in 2009)

The best thing it does is cutting metal as it should do.

 

Roger

 

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Thanks for sharing Roger. Bit rich for me new but I'll make a point of searching flea bay for something with a similar spec/size.

Interestingly I was only in Machine Mart today buying a new base unit for my tool chest paid for by my better half! for Xmas in an attempt to allow me to find the tool I need without 20mins of searching for the dammed thing because I've forgot where I put it!

Andy

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