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I’ve essentially built a hot engine which ran for 10 seconds before grinding to a progressive halt (gave it to a pro to sort)

Hoping it’ll  be back with me soon so I can carry on with my vision. 
 

Problem is that I know the wheels like to fall off these cars. 
 

What are the weak areas which might cause things to fall off?. (Diff mounts sorted but thinking more outward)

 

many thx 

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14 minutes ago, jerrytr5 said:

Don't know where you got that idea, but it is nonsense.

Jerry

So you’re saying nothing aside from shocks and springs needs beefing up to cope with power and extra stress put upon it? 

No hub or stub axle failures?

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There has been a great deal of discussion on the site about this issue. The main problems appear to be stub axle breakage and spline lock. There are several solutions depending on whether you want to keep originality with UJs and splines or go to CV driveshafts. Either way you will get stronger, modern stub axles and bearings. 

The local TR club here in Melbourne established a sub-committee to look at replacements after several cars had experienced breakages resulting in moderate to severe accidents. When the axle breaks, you lose the wheel and the brake drum. 

If you have spent a lot on the car, I would certainly upgrade the driveshafts. I put CV shafts on my 4A. They gave improvements in ride and handling as well as peace of mind. 
 

Rockie

 

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Hi Lee,

as Rockie mentioned - the original rear hubs are now getting very old +50 years.  The stub axle could well let go even with lower mileage.

Do NOT buy refurbshed hubs - as these may still retain the stub axle which is the offending item.

Moss make and sell new hubs - 100% new components. I have a pair that are now 4/5 years old  (apprx 50,000 miles) and doing werll.

Bastuk also manufacture new hubs

You could also go the CV shaft route - there are quite a few to choose from.

The front end is is less prone to let go,

However, the run out of the thread on the TRunnions is prone to corrosion after so many years and these can crack and eventually break off.

The TRunnion issue is easy to see as it is rusty ad pitted. The rear hubs are nigh on impossible to detect prior to failure.

Also the front stub axle can be up graded to be thicker and remove possible pad knock back (does this really exist)

Roger

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Hi Lee,

sorry - the TRunnions are a Brass material. I meant the threaded part of the Vertical link that screws into the TRunnion.

 

I think Jerry was being a little 'tongue in cheek' with his comments.  The hbus and Stubs are quite an old issue.

 

Roger

 

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4 hours ago, RogerH said:

..................................................

Also the front stub axle can be up graded to be thicker and remove possible pad knock back (does this really exist)

Roger

“Pad knock off” does exist but not in ordinary or even spirited driving. However really thrashing the car around the lanes you can get a spongy (long?) feeling pedal if the front wheel bearings are a tad slack! Not a problem if they are adjusted properly or upgraded axles fitted... or even the preloaded type with the spacer and shims.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, TRTOM2498PI said:

Hi Lee,

You need uprated rear hubs and driveshafts on the basis of your tuned engine.  There are a couple of options available.

Uprated front hubs (alloy) with larger stub axles and Timken, modern bearings are also advantageous.

Drop me a line on Insta ?

 

 

Cheers.

Is this my late evening TR chewing the fat mate? 

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Lee

Have you got a die grinder and rotary files? Only because they are a ‘snug’ fit in the trailing arms. I sprayed the inside of the T/A with guide coat. Installed the shaft fitted the hub and nut and rotated the shaft a few times (the rubber boot clip was interfering with the inside of the arm) I then blended it back where the score marks were. 
BTW to install, unlike the originals where you stuff it in from the outside these are fitted from underneath. And it’s very snug.

So. Disconnect the shock drop link, lower the arm and remove the spring. Remove the upper bump stop, then jack the T/A up as high as it will go. Then fit the shaft from underneath.

Check the condition of the rubber/poly spring isolators.

I also lightly greased the splines with anti seize compound.

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Hi All

Sadly i can't quite stretch to a grand + on those CV driveshafts nice as they look, but as Roger rightly say our cars are getting towards 50 years old and the stub axles in particular are quite a high stress items, although less so on my std tune 50 years old engine which no doubt hasn't still got all of its horses present, but.

So is the stub axle the main weak point or are other components particularly suspect as losing a wheel is not ideal.

And is there a particular supplier that make good quality replacements or are they all cheap low quality versions.

Cheers   Keith

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There are some around that are recon units, and provided the stub axle has been replaced should be ok. They are not the most robust of designs though. TR shop sell recon exchange and new build (Bastuk Germany) units with an obvious cost difference. Moss now sell new build units ( I believe manufactured in the U.K.).

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10 hours ago, Keith66 said:

Hi All

Sadly i can't quite stretch to a grand + on those CV driveshafts nice as they look, but as Roger rightly say our cars are getting towards 50 years old and the stub axles in particular are quite a high stress items, although less so on my std tune 50 years old engine which no doubt hasn't still got all of its horses present, but.

So is the stub axle the main weak point or are other components particularly suspect as losing a wheel is not ideal.

And is there a particular supplier that make good quality replacements or are they all cheap low quality versions.

Cheers   Keith

Hi keith,

the Bastuk hubs look OK but I have had no dealings with them

The Moss hubs are assembled at the Moss Feltham (work)shop. They use all new components. The stub axle is made in Surrey by a company that does similar items for Jags etc. They are good for another 30, 40, 50 years.  I fitted a pair on my 4A in 2015/16 and have done about 50,000 miles. They wre quite stiff when new but have settled down a treat, No play at all and free to spin.

I have found that if you have a query with them Moss are amenable to sort out what problem you may have.

Regarding the hub - it is nly the stub axle that you should panic about (losing a wheel). All the other components make serious noises on their way out bit the wheel stays put.

 

Roger

 

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10 hours ago, Keith66 said:

Hi All

Sadly i can't quite stretch to a grand + on those CV driveshafts nice as they look, but as Roger rightly say our cars are getting towards 50 years old and the stub axles in particular are quite a high stress items, although less so on my std tune 50 years old engine which no doubt hasn't still got all of its horses present, but.

So is the stub axle the main weak point or are other components particularly suspect as losing a wheel is not ideal.

And is there a particular supplier that make good quality replacements or are they all cheap low quality versions.

Cheers   Keith

The trouble is Keith it’s unlikely you’ve owned your TR throughout it’s life. It’s unlikely that a beefed up engine will cause the hub to fail, cornering forces or abuse can easily cause it, or plant a growing seed.
You weren’t driving it in 1982 when the then owner put it over a kerb when he was a bit enthusiastic on a frosty road. “ That was lucky” he thought ...no damage, apart from the start of an unseen crack formed deep within the hub. Generations later it’s still there...waiting gradually extending, until...

A failure on a driveshaft is annoying, it stops you going, but a failure on a hub or stub axle stands a chance of killing you and your family member sat alongside you. We have had inversions ( that’s where the sky adopts a different position) with TRs because of this failure, if you want a safer option just replace the hubs ( which will include a new stub axle) with new units. That’s a lot less than a grand, and then use your existing driveshafts.

Mick Richards

 

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On 12/16/2020 at 8:59 AM, Motorsport Mickey said:

The trouble is Keith it’s unlikely you’ve owned your TR throughout it’s life. It’s unlikely that a beefed up engine will cause the hub to fail, cornering forces or abuse can easily cause it, or plant a growing seed.
You weren’t driving it in 1982 when the then owner put it over a kerb when he was a bit enthusiastic on a frosty road. “ That was lucky” he thought ...no damage, apart from the start of an unseen crack formed deep within the hub. Generations later it’s still there...waiting gradually extending, until...

A failure on a driveshaft is annoying, it stops you going, but a failure on a hub or stub axle stands a chance of killing you and your family member sat alongside you. We have had inversions ( that’s where the sky adopts a different position) with TRs because of this failure, if you want a safer option just replace the hubs ( which will include a new stub axle) with new units. That’s a lot less than a grand, and then use your existing driveshafts.

Mick Richards

 

Hi Mick,

I do agree, but thats the whole question is it advisable to change everything just cuz its all old or is the stub axle 90% of the risk and the hub itself 10% or visa versa?

Trouble is new stub axles are about £220 or so but hubs are more like £700 or £850 plus for uprated so the cost is significantly higher.

Also as you a driveshaft failure whilst a pain shouldn't be too safety critical, hopefully.

And i don't really have to worry about the early 80's damage as my "barn find" was off the road by then:D but i take the point.

Cheers    Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Keith66 said:

Hi Mick,

I do agree, but thats the whole question is it advisable to change everything just cuz its all old or is the stub axle 90% of the risk and the hub itself 10% or visa versa?

Trouble is new stub axles are about £220 or so but hubs are more like £700 or £850 plus for uprated so the cost is significantly higher.

Also as you a driveshaft failure whilst a pain shouldn't be too safety critical, hopefully.

And i don't really have to worry about the early 80's damage as my "barn find" was off the road by then:D but i take the point.

Cheers    Keith

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well it’s not possible to replace everything on the car but when we have examples such as this happening

Stag Hub failure.jpg

And this was one of a pair of reconditioned hubs after a couple of months usage, the other hub also broke within an 18 month period. The owner then decided it was trying to tell him something and replaced with 2 new hubs which comes complete with new stub axle and quality bearings.

We have had a small ( but growing) catalogue now of instances such as this with hubs or stub axles failing in use...even low stress running say 60 mph on a straight road where there are hardly any side forces or scrub. These units are dying, they have reached their “ timed” life with most having had an “ interesting” past which could well have caused stresses within and hidden faults. These items cannot be easily and safely crack tested, the very act of stripping to constituent parts will cause extra stressing on their aged materials. 
I am changing the rear hubs and stub axles on my Stag ( this hub above is the same design as a TR) the front hubs seem rather better and a new stub axles has sufficed there.

Mick Richards

 

Edited by Motorsport Mickey
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10 hours ago, Keith66 said:

Hi Mick,

I do agree, but thats the whole question is it advisable to change everything just cuz its all old or is the stub axle 90% of the risk and the hub itself 10% or visa versa?

Trouble is new stub axles are about £220 or so but hubs are more like £700 or £850 plus for uprated so the cost is significantly higher.

Also as you a driveshaft failure whilst a pain shouldn't be too safety critical, hopefully.

And i don't really have to worry about the early 80's damage as my "barn find" was off the road by then:D but i take the point.

Cheers    Keith

Keith - it's not the driveshaft which breaks, which as you say is non safety critical - it's the hub on the end to which the wheel is attached, which is of course a whole different safety critical issue where the end result is almost certainly down to good luck.

As you have found, even replacing with standard new non uprated items is close to the price of CV jointed ones, and if you go for uprated original type items, the price ends up considerably more. To my mind, going for CV jointed set up is a no brainer

Cheers Rich

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/14/2020 at 9:54 AM, RogerH said:

Hi Lee,

as Rockie mentioned - the original rear hubs are now getting very old +50 years.  The stub axle could well let go even with lower mileage.

Do NOT buy refurbshed hubs - as these may still retain the stub axle which is the offending item.

Moss make and sell new hubs - 100% new components. I have a pair that are now 4/5 years old  (apprx 50,000 miles) and doing werll.

Bastuk also manufacture new hubs

 

Roger - does anyone else make new ones?

I think the TR Shop used to sell the Bastuk ones but they only seem to sell reconditioned ones now.

Cheers

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