Dougie Simes TR2

[Ralph Whitaker]

I have downloaded a link to a page from the Kingsteignton Historical Society about a chap called Dougie Simes. I knew him briefly about 6 years before these pictures were taken.

The treasure trove of old cars referred to included a white TR2,( it turns out my memory was playing tricks and it was actually black but covered in dust.) that Dougie told me was purchased off the stand at, I think, earls court motor show. It subsequently broke the crank and Dougie tried to get a new crank under warranty with no success, apparantly because he was not a registered Triumph dealer and had stripped the engine himself. He refused to buy a crank, and left the car sat in the corner of his workshop where I saw it in about 1981. Alongside it was an MG y type saloon, and another older box saloon from the thirties. There were tons of stores for old cars, including a rack of new car tyres wrapped in orange cellophane (remember when they used to do that?)

I was restoring my 1948 Minx at the time, and had driven down the road this garage stood on many times but was just to me an abandoned garage that could hardly be seen from the road as it was so overgrown. Then one day all the undergrowth had been cleared, and there among the remaining bushes was a 1948 Minx, a Fiat Topolino, and if memory serves a triumph Mayflower. All were cars that had been for sale when the garage was closed and still had for sale signs in the windows.

I made enquiries and learned the whereabouts of the owner and one evening went round and knocked on the door of a very overgrown cottage. An old chap, quite tall and imposing, answered the door and asked "what do you want?". in a very gruff and seemingly slightly annoyed voice. I explained I would like to buy the remains of the Hillman at the side of his old garage, to which he replied "I`m busy. Come back tomorrow", and promptly shut the door. That did not surprise me as I had been told he was very difficult to deal with and wouldn`t sell anything.

I persisted and went back the following evening and found a very different and pleasant person who invited me in, and after hearing about my restoration project, and my enthusiasmn for cars, we got on very well, and he spent the evening reminiscing about his trials and rallying days, mainly pre war, and showed me many photos of himself and his Austin Ulster. He still had that Austin, though I never saw it, in a large barn like building at the back of his cottage. He had courted his late wife in that car and said he would never sell it. Also in the barn was reputed to be a brand new WW2 Willys jeep. He had been to an auction after the war and bought 2 jeeps, one to use as a tow vehicle for the garage, and concerned about getting parts for this American vehicle, purchased a second one for spares which had never been needed.

The TR was purchased because he wanted to get back into doing trials and rallies, but realised he needed a more modern car. As he related to me he saw the TR on the stand at the motorshow and said to the representative "I would like to buy that car". The salesman said "certainly sir, if you go to your nearest Triumph dealer you will be able to order one".

"No" said Dougie, "I want to buy that one, as you will no doubt have made sure it was especially good for the show." And it would seem he got his way and bought and collected it after the show finished.

I never paid a great deal of attention to the car, after all it was the Minx I wanted for spares, and never thought that 40 years later I would be restoring a TR, but I wonder what became of it after he died. I do know that his long time friend was Freddie Hawken, the Fiat main dealer in Newton Abbot, and that he was the executor of Dougies will. Dougie had no children and no living relatives as far as I remember.

It was presumably a very early car and was hopefully saved.

Ralph.

Oh, and the Minx?. It fell in half when we tried to pull it out of the bushes, but it only had 30,000 on the clock and I stripped what I could off it. The gearbox and rear axle are currently on My car.

 

dougielikeshisgarage.pdf

Edited January 20, 2021 by Ralph Whitaker
Mention of colour

[RogerH]

Hi Ralph,

that is such a lovely story, with a sad ending.  I wonder how many times this has happened up and down the country. 

People shut up shop and walk away.

 

Roger

Edited December 6, 2020 by RogerH

[Ralph Whitaker]

10 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Ralph,

that is such a lovely story, with a sad ending.  I wonder how many times this has happened up and down the country. 

People shut up shop and walk away.

 

Roger

It would seem that some time in the seventies Dougie had seen his doctor, who advised him he was overworking and should be taking things easier or he was likely to have a heart attack. He must have been in his late sixties then. He told me he went straight back to the garage, paid off his mechanic, and closed up. He insisted in coming with me when we went to recover the Minx, and that was when he showed me in the garage. We struggled to get the doors open as it was the first time he had been back since.

I am hoping the story may ring some bells with someone who can shed some light on what became of the car. Also I don`t know if sales records exist for Motor show cars but it would be interesting to see if there was mention of a sale of a white show car to a D Simes.

Ralph

[stuart]

Bill Piggott would be the man to ask but he doesnt post here any more due to censorship of his posts. Mike Ellis may be able to help.

Stuart.

[Bill.P.]

Well, I shall just this once break my "never post here again " rule because I DO indeed know a little about the fabled Dougie Symes.....he DID have an early TR2 in Devon, and I'm pretty sure the reg number was RTT417. He did also  abandon the car in his garage with a broken crank at, I was told, about 30000 miles and he refused to repair it or sell it. Again, I'm pretty certain that this is the car that is now in the National Motor Museum , Beaulieu.....he may have willed it to them, or else his executors offered it to the NMM.....either way it was restored by them and is said to be totally original (except for the crank of course!).....I haven't actually viewed it there myself so can't be categorical as to its identity. As to whether it was an  actual Earls Court show car I very much doubt. RTT417 was issued in Devon in late June/July 1954.....the car was not one of the first TR2s so could not have been on the Oct 1953 show stand, and nor could it have been on the 1954 stand as it was registered well prior to that show, so I think that part of the story was Dougie's embellishment . He also DID rally this TR, and December 1954's Motorsport magazine carries a night-time photo of it, plus another Devon TR2 (RUO 511 from August 1954) both together on a major Rally . As to when it broke its crank, who knows? Cars in those days only carried a 6 month warranty, so unless he did 30000 miles in 6 months I'm not surprised Triumph's wouldn't replace the crank FOC !!

Shame so many of us from the old TRR days now refuse to have anything to do with the Forum due to censorship......think of the knowledge that is being gradually lost.....Bill Piggott

 

[iain]

I remember now Bill, a news article in Classic andThoroughbred or was it Practical classics....car pictured covered in detritus but definitely went to the NMM.

Iain

[foster461]

This TR2 ?

https://nationalmotormuseum.org.uk/vehicle-collection/triumph-tr2/

 

[mike ellis]

Restored for Beaulieu by the late Peter Marks I believe.

Mike

[John Morrison]

"Shame so many of us from the old TRR days now refuse to have anything to do with the Forum due to censorship......think of the knowledge that is being gradually lost.....Bill Piggott"

 

Posted April 10

  On 4/10/2020 at 12:52 PM, Bill.P. said:

Small wonder that this Forum is dying when the moderators apply censorship so assiduously.....I too was needlessly and absurdly censored some months ago, and as a result have not posted since, until now.  No doubt the club can do without my experience and knowledge  in sidescreen TR matters, but one wonders how many others , taking the same view on free speech as myself, are also refraining in future from posting, and what TR knowledge and wisdom is thereby being lost to the membership?  Bill Piggott

 

...and my reply;-

 

Same old, same old tosh, censorship v free speech?

Let me tell you, every decent member of society is in favour of censorship, or controls or whatever you want to label it, if not then absoulutely anything would be OK - Yes?

Well you have chosen to resurrect a relatively minor issue, in which  I simply asked you to rephrase something in your post. You thought it apt to comment how another nationality sounds when speaking. Lets take an eight year old wheelchair bound cerebal palsy victim, quadraplegic and can only make grunts, would you write something about how he tries to communicate? I assume not, so you are in favour of boundaries, or put another way, no absolutely everything is not OK.

The only factor, is where the line is drawn, and thats the job, with our rules, of the moderators, here on our forum. A job made so much more difficult by, on the one extrem *** ******* ******* quite disgraceful and probobly illegal remark, and on the other, your making a mountain out of a molehill. We all used terminology such as you did, but it was back in the seventies and eighties, and has no place in 2020, anywhere, let alone on our forum, where all we ask is folk to be nice to each other.

John.

 

....I would have nothing to add.

John.

[Fireman049]

Pray tell me Mr. Morrison what I said was "disgraceful and probably illegal remark"??? I've never used profane language or anything else.

I am personally offended that you chose to name me on this Forum.

You publicly embarrassed me on this Forum and to belittle Mr. Bill Piggott, who is a a well respected authority on all things TR is shameful!

A certain member, who is no longer with us, was allowed to use profane language and personal insults against Members! Where were you then?

A reply on the Forum would be appreciated ~ no phone calls please.

I doubt that this reply will see the light of day. 

Tom. 

[Andy Moltu]

I am not sure this is the right section of the forum to have a decent discussion on the rights and wrongs of previous postings and why or not we, the moderators, which some chose to refer to as censors have intervened in the past. 

As a liberal, my only way of looking at postings, is to ensure that the TRR doesn’t find itself liable for legal action and to be frank to be acceptable to the average person. I don’t want to read about individuals perceived hurt feelings and I would expect all posters to ask themselves if they would say that to the individual face to face? Would you talk to your elderly parents in such a way or be happy for someone to say such things to your elderly relatives?

I have allowed the postings but would request that the three individuals look at the content of their posts and consider whether they might choose to review the tone and content.

 

Andy

[Bill.P.]

I have no intention of "reviewing"  any post that I have made, and stand by everything I have said.....I shall therefore definitely not post on this forum again, as indeed many others that I know of no longer do. I only broke my previous  resolve yesterday to give some important information about a particular car, which information I hope was of interest to the enquirer. However the forum will in future have to do without such TR knowledge as I have. Bill P.

[Ralph Whitaker]

Oh Dear, seems I have inadvertently opened a can of worms.

Anyway, Bill, I thank you for your information and now know that the car survived, though I was sure it was white, unless it was just a covering of dust, the car when I saw it was hemmed in with other vehicles in a corner and I only saw it from 20 feet. What niggles me now, is that Dougie and I seemed to hit it off right away, and he offered me any of the cars in the garage, as developers were wanting to buy the remaining land, but as an impoverished youth and not wanting to insult him with a derisory offer I thanked him but declined. He even offered to sell me his daily driver, a somewhat rust streaked VW Karman Ghia.

We parted on good terms, and to my shame never saw him again, despite his offer to call around anytime I was passing. Not long after I moved back up to Yorkshire from Devon and a few years later heard about his passing.

Ralph.

[David Owen]

On 12/8/2020 at 6:45 PM, John Morrison said:

"Shame so many of us from the old TRR days now refuse to have anything to do with the Forum due to censorship......think of the knowledge that is being gradually lost.....Bill Piggott"

 

Posted April 10

  On 4/10/2020 at 12:52 PM, Bill.P. said:

Small wonder that this Forum is dying when the moderators apply censorship so assiduously.....I too was needlessly and absurdly censored some months ago, and as a result have not posted since, until now.  No doubt the club can do without my experience and knowledge  in sidescreen TR matters, but one wonders how many others , taking the same view on free speech as myself, are also refraining in future from posting, and what TR knowledge and wisdom is thereby being lost to the membership?  Bill Piggott

 

...and my reply;-

 

Same old, same old tosh, censorship v free speech?

Let me tell you, every decent member of society is in favour of censorship, or controls or whatever you want to label it, if not then absoulutely anything would be OK - Yes?

Well you have chosen to resurrect a relatively minor issue, in which  I simply asked you to rephrase something in your post. You thought it apt to comment how another nationality sounds when speaking. Lets take an eight year old wheelchair bound cerebal palsy victim, quadraplegic and can only make grunts, would you write something about how he tries to communicate? I assume not, so you are in favour of boundaries, or put another way, no absolutely everything is not OK.

The only factor, is where the line is drawn, and thats the job, with our rules, of the moderators, here on our forum. A job made so much more difficult by, on the one extrem *** ******* ******* quite disgraceful and probobly illegal remark, and on the other, your making a mountain out of a molehill. We all used terminology such as you did, but it was back in the seventies and eighties, and has no place in 2020, anywhere, let alone on our forum, where all we ask is folk to be nice to each other.

John.

 

....I would have nothing to add.

John.

 

At the risk of a nuclear reaction, this is probably the most inept piece of forum moderation I have ever seen in all my quite extensive experience.  Traffic on here has virtually died since this incident occurred.

Play the ball not the man.

 

[Chris Glasbey]

Great to hear Bill's input to this TR2 story .....but the last line was bound to cause a reaction.  Respect for all the Moderators ....and whilst some of us may wish to comment in a style that was acceptable years ago, we have to either shut up or re-phrase to suit today's PC world. 

Chris

[Bill.P.]

Or walk away as I have done.....BP

[Chris Glasbey]

Seasons Greetings Bill ..........and let's hope we can all actually meet up at some events in 2021  !

 

[Leonardo]

The Tr2 the day she arrived at Beaulieu.

 

[DavidBee]

Thanks, Ralph, for taking the time and Bill, for filling in the gaps.

David