Recommendations? For gear reduction starter and alternator

[Opie]

I would like to have your opinion on two products for my TR3A. 

First, would a gear reduction starter be recommended by your past experience to replace the original type starter? 

Second: Is an alternator replacing the generator worthwhile?

Comment:

It's not like I want to spend money just for the fun of it. I am tempted to do these upgrades to make TR start and run better.

Cheers or thanks.

Opie

 

[TwinCamJohn]

Personally, I can't see the need to change the starter. If everything else is well adjusted and in good condition the car should start without problems.

I have an alternator with which I am happy as I run additional lights during night rallyes.

[RobH]

Neither of those changes will make the car run any better. 

There is no reason why your car shouldn't start just fine with the original type starter-motor if it and the battery are in good condition Opie.  If the engine cranks over OK but won't start, that isn't due to the starter motor.   Having said that many people have gone for a geared starter as they should pull a bit less current than the original so there is less strain on the battery.  Whether that is a real benefit is debatable. A geared starter is smaller so gives more room for 'performance' exhaust pipes/ manifolds. 

 If you are finding the electrical system cannot cope with the dynamo then an alternator is useful. 

Changing to an alternator gives better output at very low engine revs which keeps the battery charged on cold dark days when the lights and wipers are on; it also gives a higher maximum current so you can fit accessories like an electric cooling fan etc without draining the battery.  

It does, however drag you into maybe having to make other changes, as a lot of people doing this remove the fan and fan extension at the same time and fit narrow belt pulleys to the crank and water pump so a standard alternator pulley can be used.  It also requires an electrical fan to be fitted of course.  If you don't want to go that far you can retain the standard pulleys and use the dynamo wide pulley on the alternator; however that loses some of the benefit because that pulley is bigger diameter and the alternator does not rotate as fast as it could - so the output is lower for a given engine speed. 

( I do confess I have fitted both to my '3A - the starter because the original packed up and the alternator because the dynamo front bracket fractured so needed replacement and I wanted to remove the mechanical fan anyway ).  

Edited November 28, 2020 by RobH

[Lebro]

+1 for all above.

I opted for alternator when re-building the car from scratch because  it copes with dark, rainy nights when stuck in traffic much better than a dynamo can.

I was happy with the original starter motor, but after purchasing a tubular exhaust manifold I found the starter would no longer fit, so I now have a geared one. 

Wosp units have a good reputation, & that is what I have.

Bob.

[acaie]

When the original starter failed on my Grinnall TR8 2 1/2 years ago I had it replaced with a Powerlite and it was a great improvement on the original even when that was OK.  So far I am very pleased.

[Ralph Whitaker]

I have both, but that`s because I didn`t have either a starter or dynamo at the start of the re-build, and the alternator and starter were easier to find new than second hand original items, coupled with the fact that converting from LHD meant the use of a steering rack, which in turn meant I had to use an electric fan, so an alternator seemed logical to cope with the extra load.

As in your previous posts you state you seldom use the car I cannot see the point in the expense and trouble fitting either unless your current items fail, especially the alternator as that incurs re wiring consequences.

Ralph

[ianc]

If the car has been changed to negative earth, then change to alternator requires minimum of wiring changes, and all can be undertaken at and within the regulator box - see other recent Forum posts for details.

Alternatively, have a look at Section J4 of the Technicalities CD (from TR Action 118, November 1994) or TR Action 248 (March 2011).  TR Action is available on-line on the TR Register's website.

Ian Cornish

[Hamish]

I have fitted both hi torque starter from power lite when my original died. Recently had to replace a locking circlip but the company supplied it for free.

Also due to my dynamo cast mounting breaking I bit the bullet and changed the wiring for an alternator little 40amp version. I run an electric fan so thought the extra ummph worth it. 
 

all done on the cheap with expert help from the forum that enabled me to source parts and knowledge that meant it was a diy job.

 

wouldn’t have bothered though if parts hadn’t given up or broke..

[JeffR]

Last year I reluctantly fitted a WOSP starter motor to my TR3. I say reluctantly because I like to keep my car as standard as possible and because I have a concern about the durability and long term reliability of these new lightweight motors. I also find that modern hi torque starter motors make a terrible racket compared with the much quieter and softer start provided by the original starter motor.

The reason for making the change was because the rubber in the metallastic bush that provides the 'soft start' in the bomb type starter motor had shredded, leaving the armature to spin without providing any power to the pinion gear. These bushes do wear over time, the most recent was an NOS replacement which lasted almost 10 years. Unfortunately, these original bushes are no longer obtainable. The Chinese reproductions now available through the usuals only last 6 months if you're lucky. Apart from the unreliability of this situation, having to remove and strip the starter motor every few months was the compelling reason for my forced change to a WOSP.

If a more reliable bush were to be available I'd switch back to the original starter motor in an instant.

JeffR

[Opie]

All good advice.

Thanks.

To Ralph:

My thinking is similar to yours in that why go from original if all is working. Why?

Because I am reaching the advanced age to decide what the future holds for the TR3 as pertains to my family. Not a one of my kids or grandkids cares much about it except for a ride now and then. Few young people today will ever have the feeling I do while sitting in a chair gazing at the fine automobile after waxing it once more.

So, I am thinking the next owner, whether family or stranger, will appreciate any advanced technology I can apply.

I even see on BATrailer that the third upgrade, that being a Mazda 5 speed tranny, easily pays back its investment. 

thanks

Edited November 29, 2020 by Opie

[mikej]

Another opinion, as I'm passing!

Hi-torque starters are probably useful in cold climates but frankly, a good standard starter with a good battery and eclectics well maintained works just fine. If the engine takes too long to start then fix it!  After 43 years I have zero motivation to fit one!

Alternators, depends. If TR is going touring then it is transformational, especially in hot weather with a fan running more frequently in traffic jams. The 22A available from a generator (at 2000RPM)  is on the edge with fan running, a battery to charge and possible head lamps on. I went that route primarily because the regulator was being a pain and the replacements were worse. No new wiring needed, short out the regulator and use it to store spare plugs in!

Mike 

[JeffR]

I'm not sure how useful an alternator conversion is these days. With LED lighting there's less of a need for all those amps. If there's no need for an alternator there's no need for an electric radiator fan. The mechanical fan is more than adequate on a properly maintained car - at least it has been for the past 65 years on my TR3. Maybe it's a case of an upgrade being overtaken by modern technology.

JeffR

 

[Opie]

mikej,

You and others here have made it clear that the original parts should work just fine.

Thanks to other answers I have received on several posts about carbs, timing, plugs, etc, my TR3 is running great.

And, as I should have known, and you and RobH have pointed out, the TR should start easily. But it helps greatly if you exercise it regularly. For the past two weeks I have started the TR3 every morning. It starts in 2 seconds every time.

My thoughts about a high torque starter are now gone.

Thanks for the advice. I guess the old adage is true, "Use it or lose it," referring here to the starting ease and ability.

Opie