JohnC Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Charlie D said: purpose made drill presses are not designed to have sideways forces applied to the spindle Quite right. When I'm getting it to pretend to be a lathe I use a chunk of metal with an appropriate diameter hole in it to support the free end of whatever I'm turning. There's still a momentary side force when I cut off but I only make spacers & other little pieces. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 Hi, next I will make the "anti torque strap" and before I forget I show you which parts you can not futher use from your TR: Item 30 and 38 (TR4/4A/6) Item 39 (TR6), item 29 could be a pain to install In my opinion this is no problem because the outer tube of the EPS unit I make from steel instead of aluminium, and on the TR4/4A the construction wortks without item 39. "See you" later today, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) Today I worked more on the gearbox, so I only made the cap for the end of the outgoing tube from black POM (I like this material, please not: this is not Nylon) Original this is made of aluminium 35 mm is a very popular size for installation pipes, shure a dust cap from this tubes will also work (just an idea). Today I was not fancy for the torque strap so I want to show you 2 ways to connect the tube to the upper end of the unit The space between the support bracket welded on the bulkhead and item 44 bolted on the dashboard is about 170 mm on my TR4A, best you pick this up with compasses your own on your TR. This allows about 15 mm up to max. 20 mm for a coupling 35 x 42 mm, glued with Loctite 638 on the torque senor housing. 15 mm is deep enough and there is no torque on this tube, so this will be more than solid enough. This could look like this. You could make this from aluminium on the lathe or ask a friend to do it for you. I will go the second way: I cut the torque sensor housing d = 35 mm x 20 mm deep on the lathe, this allows to use the 20 mm to slide the hole unit out or in. Already yesterday, when I tried to slide my 32 x 1.5 mm steel tube on the Renault Clio steering column, I found it not suitable! But why? In 2018 it did... By accident I still have the end of my first unit in my workshop, which I cut off to fit the steering lock. The reason is: "the same" units, both from a Renault Clio 2, have two different diameters! With the 28 mm column from my first unit the 32 x 1.5 mm tube fitted well, now with the 29.5 mm column I had to order a 32 x 1.0 mm tube yesterday. This slotted part could also be pressed off from the column (to use a 32 x 1.5 mm tube) but I want to keep the effort as simple as possible. Indeed, simple is relative. Ciao, Marco edit, sorry, take this sketch Edited January 8, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 This is the torque sensor off to go on the lathe, on the shaft you see the 3 trigger wheels, between the 1st and 2nd is a torsion element, spinning the shaft makes the "crwons" move relative to each other, this regulates the quantity of support from the EPS. Inside the sensor housing the first 7 mm are d=34 mm and good for nothing for us, I cut this off (no need to do, but already on the lathe - why not). The next about 23 mm is d= 31 mm, good to cut to d=32 mm, by accident the diamater of the original TR Steering column, deep inside a needle bearing. I pluged that with a card board and cleaning paper to keep the chips out. (btw: all of you with al lathe shure know, a piece f steel with a bearing is a usefull tool to center many work pieces) ready after cleaning with a vacuum cleaner, card board plug and paper out Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2021 (edited) Hi, the new steel tube 32 x 1.0 mm is in (and doesn't fit ) and it is time to fix the needed length. Some of you wish I tell the result is xyz mm and nothing else, and indeed it is 110 mm, but it is not that easy. Did you expect something else? Because this length is responsible for the position of the steering wheel in front of the dashboard - and perhaps you want it closer or with more distance? YES, you can adjust the steering wheel on the TR4-6 - but No: not with this hudge electric unit between bulkhead and dashboard. I show you how you can make YOUR decision, please take and check all dimensions on your TR! On the next photo you see the position where I cut "the bell" (left) off (for a further use) from the aluminium tube (scrap). The length of the tube from this cut is 342 mm (on the steering column on my working bench). On the next photo you see where end of the unit reaching to the engine touches the bracket on the bulkhead. On LHD TRs it is for shure the head of one of the both screws, on RHD TRs it is also "propably" the head of the screw 180° on the other side. From this point the tube is 112 mm long in the direction to the engine. In the other direction, from the head of this screw, my unit is 140 mm long (you remember, I cut 7 mm off) Between the column support bracket, welded on the bulkhead, and the clamp (item 44) bolted on the fascia on my TR4A there is 170mm space. With this I can move the unit and steering wheel any time I want max. 25 mm in the direction of the driver, at least 5 mm are needed to get the cables out of item 44. The clamp (item 44) is 40 mm long (the beige tape), "behind the clamp" I'm directly on the fascia, this is 112 mm + 170 mm + 40 mm = 322 mm from the other end of the unit. The red tape is the end of the 342 mm from the beginning of this post. Means, with 342 mm length the "bell" beginns about 20 mm in front of the fascia, this is about 7 mm in front of the wooden dashboard. So the length of the needed tube is 110 mm (90 mm + 20 mm in the torque sensor housing). If you want the steering wheel closer to you, you have to make the tube longer (max +20mm), if you want it closer to the dashboard you have to make it shorter. For the position like in my TR (as close as possible to the dashboard) the tube must end with the fascia. Anyway in my situation I can move the unit 25 mm out, as explained above. I show you later why this is needed. I'm undecided with which length I continue, better would be 110 mm long, this fits more universal. Ciao, Marco Edited January 10, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) So what was the problem about the 32 x 1.0 mm tube? It did not fit over the steering lock sleeve with 29.5 mm diameter, because the sleeve is not made on the lathe and the 29.5 mm diameter has not the same center over the total length. So today I bolted the torque sensor off again, did some dust protection, used my Dremel and after 5 minutes the sleeve broke off with a "ping" like an electric ignition spark. First I thought I have a serious problem - but felt no pain anywhere.... Next I fixed the shaft in my small vice and this on the working bench to do a hacksaw job again My hope was to find the inside diameter close to 17.5 mm to tap a 3/4 UNF tread - but it is only 15.0 mm. I guess best is to make a coupling 15 mm x 19 mm, to glue it and fit 2 roll pins. Sorry, the progress on the project slows down because I'm at the office again.... Ciao, Marco Edited January 12, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) OK, the steering lock sleeve is off and the steel tube 32 x 1.5 mm I made 110 mm long. "The bell" I cut off from the aluminium tube with my lovely hacksaw and smoothed the surface with a file. The steel tube and "the bell" will be connected with a coupling made of POM, both ends pressed inside. The POM coupling also will be the bearing for the steering column and the helper to glue the steel tube in line in the EPS unit. POM are the black and white pieces and is a kind of plastic, you perhaps know it as "Delrin" from "DuPont". This works very well for simple bearings and I love to work with this material on the lathe. The "X"ed one is Nylon (Polyamide) , another kind of plasic for simple bearings, I hate this material on the lathe. Ciao, Marco Edited January 14, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Some progress today in my workshop. You see the coupling made of POM, left end d=29 x 20 mm, right d = 30.5 mm (due to YOUR "bell) x 20 mm, inside about 22 mm. This also helps us later to glue the steel tube in line with the steering column. POM is a lovely sliding material for bearings, but it also slides outside! To fix it proper in the tube and in the "bell" a little screw is needed, the one in the tube you can pre drill and fix very soon, the one in the bell you fit at last when the hole unit and the switches for indicator and light are in their final position. If you don't do that the time will come, you want to use any of both switches and - twist the bell. Edited January 18, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) Next is to find out where the make the cut on the TR steering column on the correct position, looks difficult but it is simple. First mark the end of the steering wheel and determine the distance when the steering wheel touches "the bell". 5 mm on my Moto Lita. Moved to my original steering wheel it seems to be the same. But it is 6 mm - 2 mm = 4 mm... Same - same. Next you assemble the tube and "bell". You may have the issue the coupling sticks on the steering column, this is because the POM coupling is compressed by the tube / bell. Then take it in pieces again, back on the lathe and cut 1/10 mm more out. Inside "the bell" you see the Renault steering column where I cut it off. This is - IN MY CASE - 67 mm deep in "the bell". That's it! "The bell" beginns 4 - 5 mm in front of the mark you made in the coulmn, must be 67 mm long, please ADD 3 mm for the gap needed between the steering wheel and the bell. I also added 20 mm which I want to cut down to d = 15 mm and glue it direct in the Renault column - if the TR column is solid there (I did not know at this point). Sadly it is not! About at the point "70 mm" on my scale there is a welding seam inside from a friction welding of the solid front end and the tube part. Sadly the diameters are too unfavorable to glue anything direct inside each other, so I give some thought on a "plan B". BTW here you see friction weelding. Enjoy it Ciao, Marco Edited January 18, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Love your work Marco.....as a matter of interest, if you were not fitting a steering lock through the upper steel tube would you have considered fitting a POM coupling inside the EPAS housing and fitting a longer TR outer column to the coupling for easier accessibility to the locking screw so the outer column can be removed if required. Edited January 17, 2021 by Malbaby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) Hi Malcom, thank you for your question, this shows me you are still on board. I never considered this because from my steering lock unit I have always been fixed in maximum strenght of the units housing, connecting the bulkhead with the fascina - perhaps my fault. Shure you can go this way, there are many possible ways to go... Let the TR outer tube longer, guide it direct in the Renault unit and use a original bearing -> no POM coupling at all. The clamp on the fascia will fix the tube and will peserve the bell from spinning. What could happen: the clam (item 44) could bend / twist the tube and a perhaps already tight upper bearing will block... Keep in mind with this you have no solid unit housing between bulkhead and fascina. Because the original tube is made from soft aluminium I wraped a sheet of 0.6 mm steel around it in 2014. Later I found out at several forums this is a often made improvement since ages. Allow me a preview today: later you will find out you have to fit the indicator return clip later through "the bell". This can be an anoying job because the clip is a strong loaded spring clip, on the photo you see two of them. So for my first EPS unit I made a different one, for this EPS unit I try to get the clip softer by glowing it. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday - but at Australia you are already at Monday? Ciao, Marco Edited January 17, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Thanks Marco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Hi Malcom, sorry me for this delay, had (and still have) a busy week at my job, I will continue this weekend and perhaps finish the metal work. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) Hi, had no idea which way I contiune the metal work, so I orderd the controler from "bruno_steering" (Portugal) some days ago. This is needed to get the Renault Clio regulator working. It comes with the plug, a 50 A fuse and an installation instruction. It's for switching the regulator on/off (be shure you buy it with the unit) by the ignition key, regulate the basic intensity by a poti / knop and to fool the regulator about the fact the car's ECU is missing. Today it arrived and so I started to continue. My consern was to keep the work as simple as possible (no joke), and the way on the next photo is not a simple way (did not get off the splined shaft from the trigger wheels). So I pressed the steel bolt back and will connect the two ends of the steering column by a bolt fitted inside. The one on the photo is made from aluminium only to check easily the dimensions and total length, I will make it finally from steel, glue it with Loctite 638 and lock it on both sides with 6 mm roll pins. You will see. Ciao, Marco Edited January 30, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Today I did just some planing and deflashing on my hack saw cut. Next (tomorrow?) I will check the gap betrwwen "the bell" and the steering wheel, I guess it is too much... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Well, I cut out the welding seam on the lathe just as much as I need go det a mote or less smooth surface, di = 14 mm now. Next I checked the gap with my old steering wheel, it was exactly what I wanted to have: 3 mm But too much, I did not like it and reduced the gap down to 1.5 mm Ready to make the connecting piece of steel, first only one side, later you will see why. This will be a slightly interference fit, also glued with Loctite 638..... ...then drilled 6 mm.... .....and locked with a roll pin. Next I expect it will be slightly angled and out of the center line. You see? As I told you..... That's 0.20 mm out of center on 32 mm length, in the other direction this will be 4 x more. Perhaps my attitude is too high....? But you better not weld or solder this. This will bend the steel anywhere and is not a good idea if you can not machine the parts after welding. By the way I have been told it is not allowed to weld anything on the steering column at all at Germany. Next I cut this end of the connecting piece down to 15 mm - in line with the column which is in the chuck. Ciao, Marco Edited February 2, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 You mast have a very accurate 3 jaw chuck, I would not trust mine to be in line after removal, & replacing. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 Yes, with my lathe this is also always the case. The result would have been better if I would have cut more of the welding material out of the remaining end of the steering column (I did not want to do that) and make the interference fit tighter. But the issue still will be there more or less. I show you later how this fault could be compensate in a different way - but I did not wanted to trust on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) Well, cut down to 15 mm This is the end of the Renault steering column where the TR column part has to be fitted with the connector, the inside diameter is 15 mm. But it is not perfect round because it is untouched and pressed or forged - and not drilled on the lathe. To get it in line I made a helper for the bench vise from some wood, I got the core drills 22 mm and 35 mm, so this was a 10 minutes job. With this helper I can spin the column with the TR part connected in, with my wire indicator I find the best position and marked it. I put it in pieces again, Loctite 638 on it, glue it, check it, spin it, ckeck it, push it, spin it, check,... I have max. 10 minutes. When I was pleased with the result (after about 2 minutes) I let it untouched this way and continue tomorrow. You can do this different, for me this was very fast and easy. Wish you a good night, Marco Edited February 3, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 today drilled, roll pin pressed in and marked where to stop to paint Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 I have really learned a lot from this thread Marco and I'm looking forward to seeing the end result. One question.. the factory outer steering column has a very weak joint where the alu tube is attached to the funnel shaped bit housing the switches etc. It is basically just a crimped joint and I have accidentally broken this joint in the past when replacing the upper and lower bushes. It seems like you are still relying on this joint to secure your bits together and I wonder if you are concerned about that crimped connection letting go with all the extra weight you have there. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Hi Stan, thank you for your interest and question. With "funnel shaped bit" you mean the black part on the photo above which I called "bell" where the switches for light, indicator and overdrive are fixed? Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
foster461 Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 5 hours ago, Z320 said: Hi Stan, thank you for your interest and question. With "funnel shaped bit" you mean the black part on the photo above which I called "bell" where the switches for light, indicator and overdrive are fixed? Ciao, Marco Yes, that part. It looks like you left a short section of the tube attached to it to allow you to attach your parts and I'm questioning the strength of that short section of black tube with the bell shaped bit. Stan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Hi Stan, don't worry, the tube is steel J235, d = 32 x 1,5 mm, not a part of the original aluminium tube (in the scrap). On this tube the unit is fixed on the dashboard, not on "the bell". Here you can see it in pieces, the tube now black painted. With a closer look on "the bell" you see inside the aluminium end of the bell, outside the remainig rest of the tube. Working with 3 steering columns I never had this pieces broken in parts. To glue the painted steel tube in the unit I positioned it about the way it probably will be in a RHS TR. I ave some glue only on the tube's end, not in the torsion housing, to avoid pushing glue in the needle bearing of the unit. The POM connector / bearing pushed in the tube works as a centering tool, I glued it in with the fixing screw below, so you can't see it. If this unit is used in a LHD Tr it will be visible at about 10:00-11:00 - who matters? The clamp fixing it on the dashbaord will be behind this point, the only force on "the bell" will be the drivers hands on the switches. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) Today I did the last work on the metal items: fitted the little screw to lock the POM connector, the indicator return clip and "the bell", finally made the torque strap....Ready! Only some new black paint is needed on "the bell". The torque straß has to be fixed anywhere on the bulkhead, both clips on the steering column are strong, but it will be a good idea to fix the electric motor of the unit extra. On the photo above you see already most of the elecric components: the units regulator which came with the unit from the Renault Clio 2 (be shure it is included when you buy one), the cable from the electric motor with plug (sorry behind the regulator, make shure it is not cut off), and the parts Bruno sells from Portugal. 1 is for the multiple plug from Bruno's black box 2 is for +12 V from the battery and earth 3 is for the plug from the electric motor Right side you see the 50 A fuse (too much in my opinion, 10 A would be OK), below the adjustor for the level of support. The white and black cables are earth and 12 V from the ignition to switch the hole unit on and off. Some electric work follows, sadly one part is missing...... Ciao, Marco Edited February 14, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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