JohnC Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Love the video. You should have a Youtube channel! Thinking about your questions about strength, what forces does the joint need to take? I can't picture what it does. Here are a few thoughts. Please excuse me if all I'm doing is plodding along a path you've travelled much faster. If the only purpose of the "adhesive" is to locate the tube radially, then no fixing agent is needed for that (other than to take up clearance). Glue would be fine as all force on the adhesive/filler is compressive, and even deterioration of the glue over time wouldn't be catastrophic. If there's any axial force then you do need some adhesion for tension (i.e. securing bolts are in tension). For compression, perhaps a second plate with the same ID as the tube could be used, sandwiched between the existing plate and the EPS unit. If there's tensile force then we have a need for structural strength. That includes when there's bending or oscillating tension/compression. How about we ensure that's not possible? Maybe you could run a pair of tension rods between EPS unit and bulkhead? Or from EPS unit to a reaction plate at the other end of the tube? Maybe that means more holes in the bulkhead which may not be acceptable. As I said, I'm not really clear what the tube is meant to do, so please ignore the above drivel if it's not relevant. But maybe it will stimulate a better idea... CHeers, John Bored in lockdown, and it shows! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PodOne Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Hi Marco Nice video. Just one thing that might reduce or possibly solve the distortion and give you the extra strength. Bolt the flange to the 5mm plate and then run some short welds to the flange/tube in 4 places which should be plenty strong enough, you could soft solder the rest if you feel it's needed. Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 TIG Welding would solve that problem as most people who do tube welding use it, there is less distortion as the heat is concentrated in a smaller area and the post gas cools the weld. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 Hi John, Andy ans Stuart, thank you for your assessement. The original tube is a soft aluminium tube about 32 x 1.27 mm, fixed on the bulkhed, the other end on the dashboard. Now it is a 32 x 1.0 mm or in my case a 35 x 1.5 mm steel tube, fixed on the EPS unit and on the bulkhead and dashboard. The EPS unit is also fixed with an "torque strap" on the bulkhead. The torque on the steering column is some more because of the electric support and because the column is no loger in one length. I guess my soft soldering is solid enough, when it brakes nothing serious happens - and is a real DIY issue. Yes TIG welding is possible, I have a combi electrode / TIG welder but never used it for TIG because I'm afraid to be disapointed! And TIG welding is not a DIY issue - but this is a DIY post. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JochemsTR Posted December 30, 2020 Report Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) When welding, only few points are required, no need for all around weld. Eliminating the warping of the flange. Brazing is DIY. Edited December 30, 2020 by JochemsTR Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi Marco.....Eagerly awaiting progress pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi Malbaby, thank you for your interest, freshly made photos will be posted later today. ciao Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) The next steps I made the last days but it makes no sense to report every day... Next was to determine the length of the outgoing part of the steering column to cut it correctly: Don't worry your hacksaw, the tube is only standard steel. But the inside bar (cut down 190 mm long) is hardened steel, so I used my angle grinder and grinding bench. Time to glue the tube in the coupling, you better do not weld this for the reasons I showed. There is no discussion needed, this will be finally solid enough (with a 6 mm roll pin). The glue centers the tube itself when you put it vertical on a table. I used my lathe (switched off). You can wipe the not needed glue way without a problem, but the glue in the gap between is solid VERY fast. After one day I drilled it for the 6 mm roll pin. You see, my tools are very simple. For the best connection of the roll pin you best drill both parts together, look close and you see the material of the tube and of the coupling. Contersunk and roll pin pressed in. I don't know what another owner did with the spines, but this doesn't matter at all. First fit of the splined coupling on the splined electric unit, the inside bar is 5 mm too long on the photo (195 mm), I have to cut this shorter, the 190 mm I told you is the correct length - but you always check all dimensions better yourself on your TR. The next steps (get the shaft in line with the unit, bend the flange correctly) needs some patience.... That's it for the moment Ciao, Marco Edited January 1, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Macleesh Posted January 1, 2021 Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 Really good work Marco, I'm enjoying your updates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) Hi and thank you for watching! Now is the time we perhaps go different ways: - some of you took a 32 x 1.0 mm tube to use the original or better POM (not Nylon!) bearing - I want to use a needle bearing, the next suitable is 32 x 20 x 20 mm, so I use a 35 x 1.5 mm tube - DIY POM bearings 32 x 19 mm would also work, I'm again overdoing what I do, sorry! The needle bearing has a groove and is drilled to oil / grease, so I also have to drill the tube, next is the position for LHD TRs The position in the dashboard is different on RHD TRs, the drilling has to be different positioned! But yes - but no, but yes - but no, I turned the flange 180° and drilled between. You may have noticed, the needle bearing 32 x 20 x 20 mm needs a modification to fit on a 3/4" shaft... As I wrote above: I'm again overdoing - but we can go different ways! Edited January 1, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 Hi, this is how I reduced the inner ring of the bearing down to 19 mm, it's a slightly interference fit. Later the inner ring will be glued with Loctige 638 (again) on the column. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) On 11/28/2020 at 9:43 PM, ntc said: Good luck with keeping the column strait, I know others who have tried and failed keeping the crush factor. But good luck. Hi, a very good question, I think your mates welded the coupling / column and had to fail, I showed you how I glued this and fitted a roll pin. To get the shaft and coupling now in line on the electric unit my idea is next, but everybody can do different, there are a lot of roads to go to Rome. From a piece of wood I made myself a little helper for the vise. This allows me to get the shaft absolutely vertical AND allow me to turn it. My coupling has 2 grub screws because from my first unit I know only one is scrap, forcing the coupling excentric in one direction. I glue that again with Loctite 638 (glue in the coupling and on the splinded shaft) and lock the grub screws GENTLY. Before you do that with the glue you should practice the next step without glue 2 or 3 times, with 638 you have ONLY got about 10 minutes time! The wooden helper allows me to turn the shaft, the slipghtly locked grub screws and a simple indicator helps me to bend the shaft gently in line. When you found the correct position you better let it untouchted the rest of the day, the Loctite 638 information you find here. Also while this do not try to lock the grub screws tighter! As already told: everybody is invited to do this different. Ciao, Marco Edited January 3, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Hi, with the steering column in line with the electric unit the next step is to bend the outer tube in the vise "tenderly" in final position. Fix the tube tight on the unit, the needle bearing with the still slack inner ring is your guide, a permanent marker helps you. This is about 1 mm too much down. OK, the direction to bend both ends of the flange is marked / clear. Ups, after 3 times too "tenderly", this was about 0.3 mm too much. "Tenderly" bending back again - indeed "ternderly" is relative. When the bearing slides in the tube (tight fit) you got it. Spin the shaft to another position to check double. Time to glue the inner ring with Loctite 638 on the steering shaft, Loctite 638 ONLY on the shaft, slide the ring over the glue, back and forward, finally some [mm] out. Bolt the tube on the unit and slide the inner ring back in the final position and don't touch it for 10 minutes. Bolt the tube off again and press the body of the needle bearing in the tube, fix it with Loctite 638 in half of its body. Ready, finally the bearing will get a cap made of POM, I'm waiting for ordered material. To fix the unit on the bulkhead you can use the original strap when you use a 32 mm tube, for the 35 mm tube I have to bend a suitable one. In my opinion it's a good idea to use the strap with a solid piece of L-steel from underneath to get the strap tight without bending the bracket on the bulkhead. For the strap I use 2.0 x 20 mm steel, I like to bend the flanges first, this needs some calculation according to the rubber on the tube. Ready for today, next is the strap to bear the torque of the electric motor on the bulkhead. Feel free to do everything different and for any suggestion or questions. Ciao, Marco Edited January 4, 2021 by Z320 ...or questions Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malbaby Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Upper column modification will be interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) Yeah I know. Believe it or not: I don't have the answer so far to keep it a DIY project / the project as simple as possible. What do the forum members think? Is this still a DIY project? Edited January 5, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Z320 said: What do the forum members think? Is this still a DIY project? My opinion is that if you can keep the skills/equipment to nothing more sophisticated than a lathe and brazing, then it's DIY. Welding? Maybe. Most of us don't have a lathe, but it's a little naive to think one can do actual engineering work without one. Others may have a different opinion of course! I gave away my father's lathe to our local Men's Shed (do they exist in the UK, or in Germany?) so I know it will be well looked after, and available (with instructor) if I ever need to learn how to use it. But please continue to post. At the very least, the rest of us can bask in your reflected glory John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) Hi John, you would wonder how simple my workshop is an my tolls are! Most I use my hacksaw and files - and you get pretty well results if you use them with patience. See my post like a hiking guide: I tell you the route, all distances and some options to go and I want you to inspire you for hiking! Of course hiking at Hyde Park is different than hiking at the south Wales or up to Mt. Snowdon in the north - or up to the Mont Blanc. But you can get pretty far if you want and buy the needed equipment. I hasitated a long time to buy my lathe, but its alway a good idea to buy tool when I need them (and afford them) to have longer fun with them. Tools are like good hiking shoes.. Ciao, Marco Edited January 6, 2021 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Z320 said: you would wonder how simple my workshop is an my tolls are I'm ashamed to say that I've been experimenting with using my drill press, hacksaw and files as a makeshift lathe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Not so bad.... Do you know "Ichiban Moto" at Youtube! Watch it and smile! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JohnC Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, Z320 said: Do you know "Ichiban Moto" at Youtube! I hadn't seen it. I don't know whether to be appalled or delighted! Just watched the dent removal from motorcycle petrol tank. First step, make tank safe by dropping in a lighted match. Later, weld on a pulling stud by connecting the tank to the mains neutral, and the end of the stud to mains live. Then touch stud to tank. Crikey! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tthomson Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) Great project to follow, even though I doubt I will follow your lead. I have looked for a low cost lathe for years, but most sell for too high a price for me to justify the expenditure to SWMBO. One day, I'll just buy one and let her know afterwards, (and suffer the consequences!) TT Edited January 6, 2021 by tthomson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 hours ago, JohnC said: I'm ashamed to say that I've been experimenting with using my drill press, hacksaw and files as a makeshift lathe If you use a hand held drill in a stand you can get away with it, but it is not recommended using a purpose made drill press. I have an extremely well made and solid 1950’s “Fobco Star” and I once fitted it with an end mill and used it to slot a piece of aluminium. After about 30 seconds of putting sideways pressure on it there was a shower of grease thrown out of the bearing just above the chuck. (All over the brand new T-shirt I was wearing.) I later read that purpose made drill presses are not designed to have sideways forces applied to the spindle. They have thrust bearings, not …. Erm… whatever the other sort of bearing is called. You can get away with it using a hand held drill in a stand because they are designed to be more of a “Universal tool” and have the bearings to suit. I know milling is not the same as using it as a lathe, but you still put some sort of sideways pressure on the spindle. As usual, I’m happy to be proved wrong, but whatever anyone says, it will not get the grease stains out of my T shirt. Oh, and Marko. Great stuff. Please keep it up. Charlie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Z320 said: Not so bad.... Do you know "Ichiban Moto" at Youtube! Watch it and smile! Love it. Particularly how to clean up a petrol tank. I have regularly used my bench drill as a milling machine thus far the bearings have survived but I shall be more careful in future. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Me too, but only light cuts in aluminium Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Another day in the Corona lockdown today I served my queen: everything was long time organised and we gave the bathroom walls and ceiling some fresh paint. So today only a look on what is done and what will be next. I will keep the effort "small": this will be a unit without a steering lock. For TRs EZ Power Steering / NL also offers you only units without steering lock - they know why. Ciao, Marco Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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