astontr6 Posted December 3, 2020 Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 37 minutes ago, c.hydes said: Thanks again Waldi. So you are recommending a new/unused genuine Bosch 0580 464 044, even if I could find a new/unused genuine 0580 254 996? Colin. You could use a Bosch 0-580-254-952, which is a diesel Merc pump which I have used for 47 years! The first one lasted 44 years and was replaced as it started to make different noises? This spec pump was the one that Bosch engineering here in the UK recommended to Martin's Injection/KMI in the early 1980's when they promoted this conversion for the Lucas pump, they were the first into the market. Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 3, 2020 Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 Hi Colin, No, personally I would not install a decades-old pump, it may start leaking unnoticed. I was lucky it happened during commissioning. Once the spare wheel and cover are in the booth it may go unnoticed for some time. I work at refineries, so am very aware what fuel can do, especially when vaporised and forming an explosive mixture. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 18 hours ago, DaveN said: I stayed with the original diameter fitting and tube from the tank, short length of copper that I slightly flared at the and then to R9 8mm hose into the filter. From the filter I used AN fittings. The red one is 120deg, then hose to the black bulkhead fitting. On the outside it’s again short lengths of hose and barb fittings. The only slightly awkward fitting was the inlet to the pump as it’s bigger diameter under the P clip it’s again a AN fittings, the outlet from the brass adaptor with the PRV is a JIC to AN fitting 09-08 which was a bit of a mare to get hold of! All the hose clips are Mikalor. Incidentally before any one mentions it there is plenty of clearance and I trimmed the screws on the clamps. So, in the boot tucked out of the way is the filter. The rest is under the wheel arch. The spill return is 8mm copper through a ‘bulkhead’ fitting and back to the top of the tank P clipped halfway up. Thanks Dave all that makes sense now. Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 6 hours ago, astontr6 said: You could use a Bosch 0-580-254-952, which is a diesel Merc pump which I have used for 47 years! The first one lasted 44 years and was replaced as it started to make different noises? This spec pump was the one that Bosch engineering here in the UK recommended to Martin's Injection/KMI in the early 1980's when they promoted this conversion for the Lucas pump, they were the first into the market. Bruce. Ok Bruce, so this is another one (0580 254 952) that has performed well is this one still available as far as you know? Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Waldi said: Hi Colin, No, personally I would not install a decades-old pump, it may start leaking unnoticed. I was lucky it happened during commissioning. Once the spare wheel and cover are in the booth it may go unnoticed for some time. I work at refineries, so am very aware what fuel can do, especially when vaporised and forming an explosive mixture. Cheers, Waldi OK understood Waldi, so what I need is a suitable pump for a TR6, that is new and recently manufactured to get the best performance/reliability - correct? Speaking to two of my local Devon TR Group members today they have suggested a Bosch 0580 254 053 pump that has performed well with no issues. Anyone have any comments on this pump`s suitability? Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 3, 2020 Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 Yes Colin, I would buy a new current one. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy6 Posted December 3, 2020 Report Share Posted December 3, 2020 Hi Colin I have run the 053 bosch pump for 5 years and have not had any problem with it would recommend it. Roy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 14 hours ago, c.hydes said: Ok Bruce, so this is another one (0580 254 952) that has performed well is this one still available as far as you know? Colin. Yes bought one from Ellis Motor Sport 2 years ago? It also is a low current user and can pump up to 9 bar! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 11 hours ago, roy6 said: Hi Colin I have run the 053 bosch pump for 5 years and have not had any problem with it would recommend it. Roy. Cheers Roy, that helps a lot. Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hi Bruce and Roy, have you measured the current draw of your pumps. It would be good to be able to compare. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Waldi said: Hi Bruce and Roy, have you measured the current draw of your pumps. It would be good to be able to compare. Cheers, Waldi My original one of the same part number only drew 5amps when I put it in series on the feed wire. Same as my Lucas one! Perhaps this why Bosch recommended it? I did also notice that it brought the fuel line pressure up to the correct pressure instantly! Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Thanks Bruce, by your own measurement it looks like your 952 pump is the best alternative available. Strangely however, the Bosch curve for your pump indicates it draws 9A at 7.2 bar (105 psi) which is very similar to my 0580.464.126 pump. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Waldi said: Thanks Bruce, by your own measurement it looks like your 952 pump is the best alternative available. Strangely however, the Bosch curve for your pump indicates it draws 9A at 7.2 bar (105 psi) which is very similar to my 0580.464.126 pump. Cheers, Waldi As you know the pump power absorbed will depend on the head and flow-which in turn will depend on the particular system installation. The two pumps almost certainly will have different stable duty points in each installation as it's unlikely their performance curves will match exactly. But I guess the real measure is the pump current drawn while the injection system is operating successfully under all engine loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Hi Mike, the curves of both pumps are a close match. A pump will always run on a point somewhere on the curve, so with a known differential pressure, the flow rate and power consumption (current draw is an indirect measurement) are known (fixed). In case of our cars, the discharge pressure is fixed, and as long as there is enough inlet pressure and no cavitation, inlet conditions will not alter this much. So engine load will not alter power consumption much, unless the pressure drops (too much fuel demand by engine), then the working point will move along the curve (to the right), and power consumption will rise. Pumps for industrial applications are normally tested on a bench with water where the curve is determined. This curve then has to be “corrected” for the specific proces fluid, in particular for density. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Hi Waldi, Agreed , if I were starting with a clean sheet of paper, I'd probably select a pump that would bypass 30% of the fuel through the PRV at full engine load MU fuel consumption and 105 psi into the PRV - to allow for a margin on all the old installation. Then I look around for a pump that would work at that duty point with petrol and could give me a reasonable NPSH margin on the suction-if I couldn't get the suction performance I'd keep my undertank suction booster pump arrangement- the high temperatures in Australia really cause havoc with petrol vapour pressure and the resulting available NPSH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 18 hours ago, Waldi said: Thanks Bruce, by your own measurement it looks like your 952 pump is the best alternative available. Strangely however, the Bosch curve for your pump indicates it draws 9A at 7.2 bar (105 psi) which is very similar to my 0580.464.126 pump. Cheers, Waldi I was surprised at this figure and even went to the trouble of using another multi meter and got the same figure? I wonder if the fact that it is a diesel pump and would be under much lighter load than it was designed for, has an affect here? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 That could play a role Bruce. Diesel has a higher density (0,84 vs 0,72). Bosch does not indicate this in the openly available documentation. But they will know for sure. Cheers, Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Hi Colin, why not trying the cheap polish pump which come close to the 996. And it is recommended by Volvo replacing the 996. Rgs Cas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 22 hours ago, Casar66 said: Hi Colin, why not trying the cheap polish pump which come close to the 996. And it is recommended by Volvo replacing the 996. Rgs Cas Hi Cas, sounds interesting. Do you have any idea where I can look for the data,, company or maybe part no. etc? Cheers Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kawedo Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Hi Colin try this https://www.amazon.co.uk/ESEN-SKV-02SKV005-Esen-02SKV005-Injection/dp/B078J5N9LX Best regards Charly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 That’s the pump from Esen. I contacted Esen for a pump curve or rated current at 105 psi, but they are not allowed /do not want to share this. Maybe someone has this pump installed? It may well be the best suitable replacement for the Bosch 996. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Casar66 Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) Yep, Charly is right. exactly that pump. I have one as a spare part but did not installed it. I dismantled the Bosch, if its leaks it is just an o-ring to replace. But everyone advises against it. Edited December 7, 2020 by Casar66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 20 hours ago, kawedo said: Hi Colin try this https://www.amazon.co.uk/ESEN-SKV-02SKV005-Esen-02SKV005-Injection/dp/B078J5N9LX Best regards Charly Cheers Charlie, that helps a lot. Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
astontr6 Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, c.hydes said: Cheers Charlie, that helps a lot. Colin. Hi Colin! The spec says, the operating pressure is only 4 Bar if that is the case its NBG??? Bruce. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.hydes Posted December 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, astontr6 said: Hi Colin! The spec says, the operating pressure is only 4 Bar if that is the case its NBG??? Bruce. Do we have a definitive specification for our fuel pump for a TR6 PI, ie the most important "must haves", pressure/flow/current/ etc? Colin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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