Door side Impact Bars

[saffrontr]

I have been doing a bit of research, as you do in lockdown, or in my case retirement as to which TR6 had side reinforcement fitted into the doors - see image attached. The most comprehensive detail that I can find is in one of the Moss Parts catalogues that gives commission ranges for the models with them fitted the Triumph parts book not providing any detail. 

• CR5001 onwards with cut out for door pull -  part numbers 63483 & 63484
• CF1- CF12500 with no cut out for door pull - part numbers 917559 & 917560
• CF12501 onwards with cut out for door pull - part numbers 634829 & 634830

I have my doubts with the list above following discussion with a friend in the US who has owned his TR6, CF17052U from new and it doesn't have them. 

So if you TR6 lies within the commission numbers above please can you confirm whether it has or not,

Hope you can help

Derek

 

[cord]

CR6052 with cut out for door pull, but no side impact bars.

Dan

[astontr6]

1 hour ago, saffrontr said:

I have been doing a bit of research, as you do in lockdown, or in my case retirement as to which TR6 had side reinforcement fitted into the doors - see image attached. The most comprehensive detail that I can find is in one of the Moss Parts catalogues that gives commission ranges for the models with them fitted the Triumph parts book not providing any detail. 

• CR5001 onwards with cut out for door pull -  part numbers 63483 & 63484
• CF1- CF12500 with no cut out for door pull - part numbers 917559 & 917560
• CF12501 onwards with cut out for door pull - part numbers 634829 & 634830

I have my doubts with the list above following discussion with a friend in the US who has owned his TR6, CF17052U from new and it doesn't have them. 

So if you TR6 lies within the commission numbers above please can you confirm whether it has or not,

Hope you can help

Derek

 

Hi Derek!

3 or 4 years ago I had the 2 rust blisters repaired on the bottom of each door. The repairer saw the condition of my top door pulls. He said to me why do not have fitted Spitfire door pulls which are basically the same as Post 74 TR's. I was surprise to see that my car had already got the cut outs for them in the metal work which is a Jan 73 car CR1001 but I cannot remember if it had the door reinforcements?

Bruce.

[saffrontr]

Many thanks for the feedback Dan and Bruce, not looking good for any UK TR6 to have had them despite what it says in the parts books!

cheers

Derek

[Casar66]

CR 5500 with cut out door pulls and no side impact bars.

[Richard Baines]

They weren't present on any UK model Spitfire through to 1980 so it seems unlikely Triumph would have put them on UK TR6s either (despite what the parts book says). Worth having though, extremely useful safety feature that doesn't detract at all cosmetically from the car's appearance.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Richard Baines
meant to say "UK model cars"!

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Not helpful for the comm no research....They definitely existed as the USA side impact bar door was half the price of the European no impact bar door - I know I sold 'em.

Peter W

Edited November 23, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[PodOne]

No impact protection on my 1969 UK PI cica CP2600.

Edited November 23, 2020 by PodOne

[SeanF]

Hi Derek. Mine is CR5850 and does not have them. 

[saffrontr]

Hi all,

Many thanks for the feedback its certainly looking like none of the CR series had them, maybe as Peter says they were the door type available from the Dealers for the spares market particularly as they were half of the price. Triumph did carry out a lot of side intrusion testing on the late model TR6 starting in August 1973 and then a couple of times in 1974 with the last in October 1975. The side impact bars were presumably a result of this testing in order to comply with US legislation.

The only test TR6 that I have found so far in the records as having them fitted is French Blue CF4028UO which was recorded as having a side impact beam fitted so maybe this was the car used in the first side intrusion test. This TR6 was also an emissions test car however there is no record of its fate

cheers

Derek      

[TRTOM2498PI]

Hi Derek,

My 6 is an American shell (1976), and has these bars contained inside the doors.  I have the V5 somewhere, so can check that detail soon for you.

Cheers.

[saffrontr]

Thanks Tom.

that would be great

cheers

Derek

[Keith66]

Hi Guy's esp Derek

I see the US cars def seemed to have the bars, i recognise one of Ed H's bullfire images.

So were they just a USA market thing perhaps inline with other USA impact reg's, like the bumper overiders? I know Ed's car is a late-ish one and has overriders.

the question is would BL have had two different type of doors, one for export, mainly to the US, it was the main market after all. You bet they would, anything to save cost, i've another late 60's BL thing and there are a number of little almost unnoticable he cost cutting things that were done between the 68 and 69 model year to cut costs, I suppose after the big merger.

MGR went through a very similar process in around 2000, called Project Drive and was trying to save a few pennies here and there to stave off the final collapse. Mostly it was little things they hoped people wouldn't notice like changing the gearlever knob trim from leather to PVC, deleting the plastic grip on the jack hangle, etc but some were big like going from rear vented disc to solid on the less powerful models.

Unfortunalty in both cases messing round at the margins didn't help enough and they both ran out of cash, BL being bailed out and its successorMGR going bust and no longer here.

But back onto the door beams how did they fit and could they be retrofitted easily without reskinning the door.?

Cheers   Keith

 

[Richard Baines]

Hi Keith,

the purpose behind the bar is to spread the force of a side impact into the edges of the door, and consequently the A and B pillars as they are much stronger than a door skin (obviously). For the passenger 'cage' in crash design it follows the opposite principle to crumple zones - the crumple zones in the front and back of the car take the energy and dissipate it to reduce energy passing to humans inside the car, where as you don't have the space for that in the passenger cage so you need to create a very strong structure that doesn't deform.

I've got a pair of USA doors I've obtained for my UK Spitfire and I also picked up a USA TR6 door with the impact bars from Conrad (fellow member) earlier this year to study and eventually replicate the bars on my Dad's TR6 one day.

They all consisted of a fabricated box section with bent pieces (appearing like 2 bars) that are spot welded to a flat piece of steel, which faces - but importantly, is not touching - the door skin. There's a gap between that and the sound deadening pad, it doesn't rest against the pad.

The shaped piece that looks like 2 bars has tabs that are spot welded to the door frame at the sides, plus a right angled strengthener is also spot welded that braces the door frame joint from the other side.

Pictures tell a thousand words though, so I've attached some from an ebay auction I looked at years ago (but didn't buy) for Spitfire doors with the skin cut off, plus the crusty TR6 one we've got. I can take more photos of either model of door as they're all off the car if necessary but it will have to wait a bit as the parts live elsewhere.

For what it's worth - I don't think you need to copy the Triumph attachment. It's very strong, but designed around a press tool and spot weld process. You could create something just as strong with 2 box section steel bars, some flat 1mm steel, and ideally seam weld the bars to the door frame. Might actually end up stronger that way.

[Kiwifrog]

Is there a way to tell if the car has them without removing the door trim. I have a late US TR6

cheers

Alan

[stuart]

2 hours ago, Kiwifrog said:

Is there a way to tell if the car has them without removing the door trim. I have a late US TR6

cheers

Alan

It will have them Alan,look on the front and rear faces of the door frame for spot weld pips to double check plus theyre a lot more solid clonk when shutting.

Stuart.

[super6al]

I worked in a Body Assembly shop & over the years there were various iterations of door crash bar design starting with a spot welded assembly (sometimes 2 in a door) similar to the Triumph design. To meet both cost & ever stricter Euro NCAP regs they were refined over the years. The latest ones are/were a simple steel tube with a bracket mig welded either end & then spot welded to a strengthening bracket in the door (imagine a canoe paddle). As Richard said the purpose is to transfer energy to the A & B pillars rather than provide a protective barrier for the whole door. If the space exists I'm sure it would be a simple enough to fit something like this in a TR door. Not sure how effective it would be, obviously manufacturers spend huge sums designing & crash testing so forces & deformed parts are transferred into the right areas & not into the cabin area.

Alan

[Keith66]

Hi Richard

Yes a picture does indeed speak a 1000 words and the setup can clearly be seen.

I absolutely see the value in door bars, after all most if not all newish cars have them, just didn’t realise until now they were an early 70’s TR6 thing.

TBH if I had known I I would have mimicked the setup before my repaint, difficult to do now, but given they weren’t present on my UK car and it’s the age it is I really didn’t give door bars any thought at all at welding time.

I’ll have to try not to get T-boned.

Cheers    Keith