AarhusTr6 Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) Dear comrades I'm needing some help I am now on Day 2 of trying to lift the head off my engine and after too much reading the summary is I need to get the studs out. I have read the trick about using two nuts but the studs do not protrude far enough out to get two nuts on there so I am a little bit stuck. Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi you are my only hope....!!! Richard Edited November 21, 2020 by AarhusTr6 Typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Put one nut on and then tack weld it onto the stud- this worked for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waldi Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Hi Rich, Soak the studs with WD-40 or similar, several times. It helps. Did you do the rope trick? I didn’t need to but others have done it. Make sure both valves are closed first. Waldi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nigel Triumph Posted November 21, 2020 Report Share Posted November 21, 2020 Repeatedly squirt penetrating oil down the stud holes for 24 hours minimum. If the double nut trick doesn't work, a stud extractor like this one will most likely get them out: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/tool-connection-tc3986-impact-stud-extractor/?da=1&TC=GS-040213986&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkuP9BRCkARIsAKGLE8WwddAyEsi6oEjaeJvwZ25INKAPx8MisQSwolvJJMXwEygNbtnzvjcaAkgLEALw_wcB The studs will be chewed up and fit for scrap afterwards, but it's always best to fit new fasteners when replacing the head. Good luck, Nigel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeTR5 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 rope trick: stuff rope into #1 & #6 cylinder. rotate the engine. The head will "pop" up (depending on how much rope was stuffed into the cylinder) up to 1/2 inch. you can then slide progressively thicker devices (I like wood wedges) until fingers fit to pull it up. I have yet to have a car this didn't work on, except for one where the pistons were stuck to the cylinder walls and couldn't rotate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JochemsTR Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Nigel Triumph said: Repeatedly squirt penetrating oil down the stud holes for 24 hours minimum. If the double nut trick doesn't work, a stud extractor like this one will most likely get them out: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/tool-connection-tc3986-impact-stud-extractor/?da=1&TC=GS-040213986&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkuP9BRCkARIsAKGLE8WwddAyEsi6oEjaeJvwZ25INKAPx8MisQSwolvJJMXwEygNbtnzvjcaAkgLEALw_wcB The studs will be chewed up and fit for scrap afterwards, but it's always best to fit new fasteners when replacing the head. Good luck, Nigel +1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) If I want to go "the nut way" I would us two half nuts, or glue one nut with Loctite "strong" on the stud (with the bolt out you need heat get the nut off again). By the way: I put all bolts out and then the bolts through the head when I changed the head gasket the second time, because the first time, with the bolts in, the threads worked like files and oil coal felt out on the gasket. So it was not sealed. My old father gave me this warning before but as a foolish child I did not believe him. Edited November 22, 2020 by Z320 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 tapping the stubborn studs with a hammer helps to free them then the double nut works for me. Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 hours ago, Waldi said: Hi Rich, Soak the studs with WD-40 or similar, several times. It helps. Did you do the rope trick? I didn’t need to but others have done it. Make sure both valves are closed first. Waldi They will be closed as you cannot remove the nuts with the rocker shaft in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
michaeldavis39 Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Yep banging with hammer, penetrating oil, heat more penetrating oil, big hammer, nuts welded on, basically try all of this and with sweat, perspiration lots of swearing you will succeed, it just sometimes takes some time- I had two bolts rusted in my head and after a week of trying it eventually came free- I wasn't going at it every hour for a week but spraying etc for maybe an hour or two each day as it was seized on solid! So we are all on here encouraging you to keep going keep going don't give up- it's only a furball lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dingle Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Before replacing the head, coat the unthreaded part of the studs with anti seize compound. The head will come off much easier next time. Berry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AarhusTr6 Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Hi I must admit to being nervous of the rope trick, so will see if I can borrow one of those tools for removing studs, also I do not have a welder. Richard Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike C Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 hours ago, AarhusTr6 said: Hi I must admit to being nervous of the rope trick, so will see if I can borrow one of those tools for removing studs, also I do not have a welder. Richard Could be a wise move. I'd be worried about bending a con rod with the rope trick-it's mechanically very similar to when a piston hydraulic locks with coolant after a head gasket leaks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeTR5 Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 Sorry Mike, the rope is nothing mechanically like hydraulic locking. Its cotton or nylon and compresses. It neither fills up the entire cylinder nor does it build up pressure in a closed system, but to each their own. Been there, done this on the 2.5 probably a couple of dozen times. Richard, good luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z320 Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 9 hours ago, Mike C said: Could be a wise move. I'd be worried about bending a con rod with the rope trick-it's mechanically very similar to when a piston hydraulic locks with coolant after a head gasket leaks. If you worry this please realize explosions of petrol hammer on the pistons and con rods when you drive the car Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TriumphV8 Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) I do not like the rope trick, although it will not do any harm in most cases. But..... you put pressure on the rod without oil in the bearing, what also may be okay, because some oil maybe left after runing last time and..... it is not similar to the combustion because the force is only that much as the torque around 20mkg at the crank. with the combustion the piston can move downwards to compensate the higher pressuere while burning. Must be much more complicated to calculate that but I would not torque the crank with piston half way up more than 20mkg. My idea would be to make a platform sitting on all of the studs providing holes where the bolts for the posts of the rockers are. Remove the bolts, set threaded bars of proper length and torque them all step by step and I am sure no head can resist! Edited November 23, 2020 by TriumphV8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 I'll not use the rope trick again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
barkerwilliams Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 This is essential reading and mastery for colourful assistance with jammed bolts and similar problems. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Swear-Around-World-Jason-Sacher/dp/1452110875 Alan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 2 hours ago, john.r.davies said: I'll not use the rope trick again. Crikey ! is that off the Triumph 6 cyl range John ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harlequin Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 When I ŕemoved the stuck head on my TR6 I made a couple of brackets to fit on the rocker studs and chained them to the rafters of the garage under tension, using some of the weight of the car (don't over do it). You could slacken the engine mounts and just use some of the weight of the engine. This arrangement was left suspended for a few days with loads of penetrating fluid and occasional light tapping on the studs, I used a battery hammer drill with an old bolt in the chuck to rattle the studs. George Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ntc Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 hours ago, john.r.davies said: I'll not use the rope trick again. Piston half way down the boar, barge rope, 10 ft scaffold pole and brute force. I for one am not buying it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john.r.davies Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: Crikey ! is that off the Triumph 6 cyl range John ? Mick Richards In my defence - I may be gorilla shaped but not gorilla strengthed - I used the starter to try and shock off the head. Nowadays, I'd ALWAYS remove ALL the studs from an old engine before trying to remove the head. It sticks to the sides of the studs, not to the face of the block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Moltu Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 The rope trick works but don’t use the starter motor as it can put too much force and bend rods. Use a long bar on the front pulley nut but not the starter. Two nuts on the studs should allow most studs to be removed. On reassembly use a smear of copper grease (or even better ceramic grease as it copes better with heat) on the studs so they don’t seize in the head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mtrehy Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 11 hours ago, Z320 said: If you worry this please realize explosions of petrol hammer on the pistons and con rods when you drive the car no they don't Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, mtrehy said: no they don't Perhaps you could pad out this reply rather than wait for another 3 people to disagree to make your point ? Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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