Coronavirus II, the Vitamin D-free discussion thread.

[Peter Cobbold]

2 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

Where's Moses when you need him?

supposing his tosies are roses

[john.r.davies]

Which Moses supposes erroneously

[iain]

There was an excellent critique of this Israeli data yesterday on R4 . It is identical to the Pfizer data. Days 1 - 10/14 are included, where immunity is still devolving, hence the lower protvection %  . If the data is studied in the period  D10 to  D21 the response is  back into the 90% range. 
Figures quoted and days are from memory so please check it out for yourselves :-)

Iain

Edited January 22, 2021 by iain

[Misfit]

It’s a challenging subject where having a different opinion apparently can make you a fool. I heard someone saying look at that wearing a mask outside. The following comment caused me to ask a question and read this.
 
“Should I always wear a mask outside to help prevent the spread of coronavirus?

As the current coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic stretches on with a secondary wave of cases following the re-opening of many states and cities, is wearing a mask becomes an even more important

Cleveland Clinic is a non-profit academic medical center. Advertising on our site helps support our mission. We do not endorse non-Cleveland Clinic products or services. Policy
Remember: masks are not about protecting the wearer but, rather, protecting everyone else. This is especially important because so many carriers of the novel coronavirus — as many as 40%, according to one recent study — are asymptomatic and could otherwise be spreading the virus without even knowing it.
Wearing a mask creates a barrier that prevents the spread of droplets that carry the virus. Even if a cloth mask can’t catch every single droplet, it still significantly reduces the droplets a carrier propels into the air around them.
While these droplets usually drop to ground after traveling around six feet, coughing or sneezing can propel them upwards of 25-to-26 feet. A mask, combined with social distancing, greatly reduces the chances these droplets reach others around you and greatly decrease the odds of spreading the virus. 

This makes it important to routinely wear masks when you’re in close proximity to others indoors, like at the grocery store or pharmacy. But what about when you’re simply outside, working in your garden or on a brisk, summer walk?
There’s certainly nothing wrong with wearing a mask any time you’re outdoors if you feel comfortable doing so. If you’re unlikely to be around anyone or will have the option of maintaining a safe distance from anyone you encounter, then a mask likely isn’t necessary but having one handy is a good idea just in case.
If you’re going to be around others, either in a crowd or in a situation where it will be difficult to maintain that six foot distance from others, you should wear a mask. That’s especially true if you’ll be doing any exercise or activity in which you might be breathing heavier than normal, thus possibly propelling those droplets from your mouth further than the usual distance.

It’s important to keep in mind, though, that a mask is no substitute for social distancing. The most effective way to prevent the spread of the virus is to combine mask-wearing with social distancing.“

“Top doctors have slammed the Government’s ‘inconsistent’ coronavirus restrictions and urged them to make masks mandatory outside and in all work places.  The British Medical Association (BMA) said the inconsistency of the Government’s messaging after the first lockdown was lifted played a part in the resurgence of the virus. They have published a set of recommendations they think will have a ‘positive effect’ if ‘introduced quickly’. The BMA say people should have to wear facemasks in all outdoor settings where they cannot stay two metres away from each other and in all office and working environments”

****************************

Now I don’t know, if Doctors or science have all the answers but is it possible thats possible being outside and coming into close contact with someone Covid-19 could be transferred to another.

Therefore is someone wearing a mask a fool? or just someone wanting to reduce the risk of infecting others?

[Bleednipple]

50 minutes ago, Misfit said:

Therefore is someone wearing a mask a fool? or just someone wanting to reduce the risk of infecting others?

Why would they be a fool? You just cited a bunch of evidence that outdoor mask-wearing may have a significant impact on cross infection, in certain contexts. Combining that with common sense, it seems to me a good idea to wear a mask if you're outdoors but in proximity of others (eg in an outdoor market place, or at an event, or waiting in a queue outside a shop) but not much point in doing so if not (eg out on a walk in the quiet countryside). That doesn't seem to me too difficult a decision to make, on a case by case basis.

Nigel

[Peter Cobbold]

Removing a mask carries risk that it is contmainated and the  virus then gets on fingers and transferred to face. It was one of the reasons out foraward early in the pandemic for not wearing a mask. But still amkes sense to regard a mask worn in public areas as possibly a source of contamination, and better to keep it on elsewhere.

Peter

 

[Misfit]

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Edited February 23, 2021 by Misfit

[barkerwilliams]

Vaccine side effects. 

I have been reading reports of the Astra Z vaccine having more side effects than Pfizer which is often reported as having no side-effects.

How does no side-effects vaccination work?

 I understand that with an infection, bacterial or virus, is identified as a foreign body then the body raises the temperature to "cook" the invader at the same time white cell production goes onto a war-time footing intending to overwhelm the invader. At some point later identifying characteristics of the invader are  added to our  bodies cook-book of immune responses to invaders as a recipe for any future infections for either white cell or T cell response.

If the invader is a Astra vaccine the bodies response is similar to infection but the vaccine cells do not replicate so the response is similar and no  damage is done.

Now to my point, if a vaccine, for example Pfizer, has no side-effects I would presume the bodies immune system has not been alerted so how is the immune response needed to combat an invader programmed into the immune system?

 

Alan

[Bleednipple]

17 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

Vaccine side effects. 

I have been reading reports of the Astra Z vaccine having more side effects than Pfizer which is often reported as having no side-effects.

How does no side-effects vaccination work?

 I understand that with an infection, bacterial or virus, is identified as a foreign body then the body raises the temperature to "cook" the invader at the same time white cell production goes onto a war-time footing intending to overwhelm the invader. At some point later identifying characteristics of the invader are  added to our  bodies cook-book of immune responses to invaders as a recipe for any future infections for either white cell or T cell response.

If the invader is a Astra vaccine the bodies response is similar to infection but the vaccine cells do not replicate so the response is similar and no  damage is done.

Now to my point, if a vaccine, for example Pfizer, has no side-effects I would presume the bodies immune system has not been alerted so how is the immune response needed to combat an invader programmed into the immune system?

 

Alan

I don't think the 'cook the virus' part of your premise is correct. Viruses would presumably have long ago evolved the ability to withstand a few degrees increase in temperature, ie we'd cook before a virus did! I believe the febrile response is because in some cases a raised body temperature provides a better environment for certain of the body's biochemical immune system processes to activate.

In the case of vaccination, my (very limited) understanding is that systemic side effects - typically, flu like symptoms - are the result of localised reaction products from the  injection site spilling into the circulation and triggering the wider effects. It only happens to some people.

My understanding is that the Pfizer vaccine does indeed have fairly common systemic side effects, just like most other more 'traditional' vaccines. The NHS info to patients (I had my Pfizer jab last week) confirms that, they say more than 1 in 10 incidence, and the Zoe app data suggests that 14% of people have had systemic side effects after their first Pfizer dose. I didn't but I've never (touch wood) had such an effect from any vaccination and I've had quite a lot even as an adult, I only get a 'dead arm'.

Nigel

[Mick Forey]

Two good friends of mine had horrible side-effects from the Pfizer jabs, two days of thumping headaches and nausea. I had none with the A-Z jab. We are all different.

Mick

[Ian Vincent]

I have two friends who have both had the virus and perchance both since had their vaccinations (A-Z).  Both (so 100% of a non statistically significant sample), were knocked sideways for about 3 days following the injection and one of them said it felt like he was suffering from the virus all over again.

Rgds Ian

[Motorsport Mickey]

10 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

I have two friends who have both had the virus and perchance both since had their vaccinations (A-Z).  Both (so 100% of a non statistically significant sample), were knocked sideways for about 3 days following the injection and one of them said it felt like he was suffering from the virus all over again.

Rgds Ian

Check out Nocebo more prevalent than you think.

I realise it affects people differently, I have no side effects... at all, no heavy arm, no swelling, ( that’s why intra muscular jabs done as high up arm as possible) elastic bands ( muscles ) stretch most in the middle. Closer to the end... less stretch less effect. No headaches, no lack of sleep, no too much sleep and can’t leave bed ...nothing. Just fortunate or am I ?

Mick Richards

[Lebro]

Pfizer jab 3 weeks ago, no side effects.

Bob.

[barkerwilliams]

Mick,

"......I have no side effects... at all......"

I have been wondering where that vial of distilled water had gone....

Alan

[Motorsport Mickey]

6 minutes ago, barkerwilliams said:

Mick,

"......I have no side effects... at all......"

I have been wondering where that vial of distilled water had gone....

Alan

Lol 

Mick Richards

[John Morrison]

Pfizer Jab, last week, (Must be younger than a lot of you?) no ill effects.

Super efficient, all credit to all concerned.

John.

[john.r.davies]

It's started!  Vaccinating yesterday, almost every person was having their second jab!    This part of the Covid response is really working, because it was organised by the NHS and not by Whitehall!

They were all seniors, seniors have hearing problems and the masks make it even more difficult to converse.    I remembered a paramedic who posted on Facebook about a phone app that gives you instant 'subtitles'.     It's Google "Live Transcribe", and it's really useful!        It prints what is spoken in large type on the mobile screen, with no 'training' and almost in real time, quite quickly enough to aid a conversation.   Miraculous!   And free from the Google App Store:  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.audio.hearing.visualization.accessibility.scribe

John