Coronavirus II, the Vitamin D-free discussion thread.

[john.r.davies]

Peter,

You throw big words about with abandon, and misplaced accuracy.

As you say, the Pfizer vaccine is mRNA, in a PEG coat.

The Astra-Zeneca is double DNA, in a Chimpanzee cold virus coat.

Neither are monoclonal antibodies, although both are intended to stimulate the body to prodduce its own antibodies, but that takes days, and anaphylaxis typically occurs within minutes of exposure.    The PEG and the monoclonals are red herrings!

[iain]

PEG has been used for years as a pharmaceutical excipient in much higher doses/ concentrations than this. I have my doubts that PEG is the issue.

[iain]

On 11/25/2020 at 6:31 PM, iain said:

For me I’d rather read the summary of efficacy and safety as on the licences when granted, the SMPC.( Summary of product characteristics. )

Iain
 

Well eventually we can find this....if you dig deep on the net. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940566/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_Pfizer_BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine.pdf
How many realise that the Pfizer vaccine does not have a Marketing Authorisation,  aka Licence, but has a Temporary licence. That’s been kept very quiet or ignored on the news channels and yet it’s been on the Pfizer site since the announcement. They have not tried to hide this which I applaud for there transparency.

[iain]

On 11/25/2020 at 6:31 PM, iain said:

For me I’d rather read the summary of efficacy and safety as on the licences when granted, the SMPC.( Summary of product characteristics. )

Iain
 

Well eventually we can find this....if you dig deep on the net. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/940566/Information_for_UK_recipients_on_Pfizer_BioNTech_COVID-19_vaccine.pdf
How many realise that the Pfizer vaccine does not have a Marketing Authorisation,  aka Licence, but has a Temporary licence. That’s been kept very quiet or ignored on the news channels and yet it’s been on the Pfizer site since the announcement. They have not tried to hide this which I applaud for there transparency.

[AndrewMAshton]

Scaremongering or genuine concerns, and I am not a conspiracy theorist, my angle has been to believe the experts, but she is right on one thing, it has been rushed through,

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Ofm3QnUjcIJT/ Cheers, Andrew

[Hamish]

just to balance out the above

a little. 
 

 

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/enough-make-scientists-cry
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53525002

[Mick Forey]

I nearly wet myself when viewing that video. She may not be a scientist but she is a very good actress. No wonder the video will not allow comments to be added. It is also very hard to find out any facts about her or her medical background other than she is an osteopathic and holistic internal physician, whatever that means. Freedom of speech is great but has a lot to answer for. Sadly too much of this stuff causes great harm as people start to believe it.

I have heard of hydrogels but was unsure when she mentioned them, so I looked up a definition: "Hydrogels are three-dimensional network structures able to imbibe large amounts of water. Hydrogels do not typically dissolve due to chemical or physical cross-links and/or chain entanglements. They exist naturally in the form of polymer networks such as collagen or gelatin, or can be made synthetically". The term was first used in 1894. She describes them as nanotechnology with little robots that are able to communicate with the cloud. I will never eat jelly and ice cream again.

The other bit that made me laugh when she attacked the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation accusing them of trying to reduce the human population. She never mentioned the billions of dollars spent by them and others eradicating polio from all but two counties of the world. Before the campaign started in 1988 it was endemic in 125 countries. Perhaps it is because it has been almost eradicated by using a vaccine, shock horror, one that works and has saved millions of children from the horrors of polio.

Mick

Edited December 15, 2020 by Mick Forey

[stillp]

I wonder how many deaths idiots like that have caused?

Pete

[Peter Cobbold]

Tks MIck and Pete.    The link refuused to open for me - tks for the warning ! Peter

[AndrewMAshton]

Hamish, thanks for that, it's a blog I follow, not about Covid19, been quite good up to now, I have posted a link to the McGill website in the comments section of that particular post, Cheers, Andrew

[Peter Cobbold]

Why, if the vaccines are really really safe, has the govt done this?

https://theconversation.com/uk-citizens-get-less-legal-protection-for-covid-jabs-than-other-vaccines-and-that-could-undermine-confidence-151455

Peter

 

[Motorsport Mickey]

2 hours ago, Peter Cobbold said:

Why, if the vaccines are really really safe, has the govt done this?

https://theconversation.com/uk-citizens-get-less-legal-protection-for-covid-jabs-than-other-vaccines-and-that-could-undermine-confidence-151455

Peter

 

I think the remission of corporate accountability was put in place to encourage the commercial firms to prioritise antiCOVID vaccine development. Clinical trials doctor here explains.

https://theconversation.com/less-than-a-year-to-develop-a-covid-vaccine-heres-why-you-shouldnt-be-alarmed-150414

There is a large cost for unlimited liability to everybody and everything, I don’t disagree with criticising the limitation of it, but it does influence how firms either embrace a vaccine or not. The labyrinths and strata were conjoined to shorten processes and reduce their costs within development, and then somewhere an actuary ( probably a team of them) crunched the numbers and probabilities to define whether doing this was better or worse than having millions die of COVID.

I hope they are correct !

Mick Richards

[john.r.davies]

Well-organised thinking, and well, thinking about organisation, has been sorely lacking from our Leaders in this crisis.   Thnak goodness for some intelligent design in what they would have us do - please listen to this explanation of new tiering arrangments, note and comply:

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by john.r.davies

[RobH]

[john.r.davies]

So much for dePfeffel Johnson and the Gov's "levelling up"!

The Lancaster Vaccination centre  where I've been helping has been closed down, for next week at least.   It will receive no, none, not any, shipments of vaccine.     I am told that this has been taken to a very high admin level and there is a perceived "need to let everyone else catch up".  This project, that had by the end of last week vaccuinated 40% of the over 80s and vulnerable in the area, and were dealing with the 70s and Community NHS workers this week, has become the victim of its own well-organised success.     But rather than encouraging it, and even using it as an example to others, the Gov has instructed that its supplies shall be cut off.    Not levelling up, but levelling down.   

The small ray of hope is that it has been allowed a small supply of AstraZeneca vaccine, at the end of next week, which will be used for the remaining, housebound elderly.

But the taste of this, of political arrogance, is disgusting.

John

PS, Just a moment ago in his Press Briefing, I heard dePfeffel himself acknowledge that the Lancaster & Morcambe project has achieved 80% coverage of the vulnerable.   But still he elevels down and not up!   Worm!

Edited January 15, 2021 by john.r.davies

[SuzanneH]

1 hour ago, john.r.davies said:

So much for dePfeffel Johnson and the Gov's "levelling up"!

The Lancaster Vaccination centre  where I've been helping has been closed down, for next week at least.   It will receive no, none, not any, shipments of vaccine.     I am told that this has been taken to a very high admin level and there is a perceived "need to let everyone else catch up".  This project, that had by the end of last week vaccuinated 40% of the over 80s and vulnerable in the area, and were dealing with the 70s and Community NHS workers this week, has become the victim of its own well-organised success.     But rather than encouraging it, and even using it as an example to others, the Gov has instructed that its supplies shall be cut off.    Not levelling up, but levelling down.   

The small ray of hope is that it has been allowed a small supply of AstraZeneca vaccine, at the end of next week, which will be used for the remaining, housebound elderly.

But the taste of this, of political arrogance, is disgusting.

John

PS, Just a moment ago in his Press Briefing, I heard dePfeffel himself acknowledge that the Lancaster & Morcambe project has achieved 80% coverage of the vulnerable.   But still he elevels down and not up!   Worm!

I think you have got a “ Bl**dy” cheek.....! Here we are in West London, no sign of vaccinations at all, not even for the extreemly vulnerable and you are complaining that you are doing so well that you are being levelled down.

We daren't leave the house, the streets are empty, we can’t get out and there is nowhere to walk to.We are reading that our TR counterparts in North London are having their Vacinations one even on 31/12/20.

You are very lucky that your medical services up North-are so well organised because here in West London as usual our GPS are not up to the mark. All we keep getting is text messages from our GPs telling us not to phone them about the vaccine and vacinations, they will contact us. I wonder when?

Today they have said they are closing ALL travel corridors from Monday once again too late for us in the vicinity of LHR.

I think you are very selfish in your attitude.

I was within a fortnight of having My hip replacement when it was cancelled last Friday.

Edited January 15, 2021 by SuzanneH

[john.r.davies]

I could not be more sorry, Suzeanne, that you have lost, for now, the relief from pain that a hip replacement can give, or that the medical services in your area lack the enterprise and forward thinking that have delivered this result for Lancaster & Morecambe.    But in your disability, would you inflict that on anyone else?    This area and I don't want any more than anyone else, but to be prevented from continuing the good work seems to me unjust to the people of L&M and insulting to the group practices whose good work is being negated.

John

[RogerH]

There is a shortage and they are spreading it thinly around.

Count your blessings.

Roger

[iain]

John through great organisation and undoubted dedication you are at the front of the curve, same as the practice my wife works in in Devon, however, many are still struggling to get going. It’s only right and proper that they catch up to level the playing field, I really don’t understand your comment about levelling,  our two local towns show a huge difference. One has done 3000, the other one none!  Distance between the two, 5 miles. In the interest of equity of role out the “successful practice”is waiting for the others to catch up. Thats levelling.

Iain

[john.r.davies]

1 hour ago, iain said:

In the interest of equity of role out the “successful practice”is waiting for the others to catch up. Thats levelling.

Yes, it's levelling.   Levelling down.   Levelling up would continue to supply the successful practice, while encouraging the laggards to.do better.

This may be an academic discussion - Pfizer is reducing vaccine production, possibly, hopefully, to increase it later.  

[RogerH]

Hi John,

perhaps they have to level down because the supply of the vaccine is finite. 

Would it be fair for the North West to hog all that is available just to keep you happy.

Somebody somewhere is trying very hard to keep the wheels on the truck.

 

Roger

[Waldi]

Situation overhere in our little country to give some perspective:

Several interest groups (GP’s, hospital staff, teachers, ...) all want to be priority in the schedule.

We started dabbing only on Jan 8, we were not prepared...

The UK- version is spreading here too, expected to govern new infections by March, a major concern.

Same issue with Pfizer in temporary reduced production.

Interestingly, the willingness to get vaccined has increased over the last months.

Lock-down measures will possibly be further extended.

We just hang in there, and (try to) have some more patience, it will go over.

I noticed it helps me to NOT follow all the Covid discussions on the news, and just make the best of it. Cannot influence it. And yes, governments make mistakes, are slow, and I know I could do a better job (or???)

Stay safe, hang in there, and we hope to meet you somewhere, with our TR, in the future!

Waldi

[Rod1883]

Well said Waldi

Any Government is damned whatever decision or action they take, or targets they set, or layers of management they trust to enact their policies and achieve those targets.

The fact that we have administered somewhere over 3.2 million doses (probably close to 4 million once yesterdays numbers are added) within just a few weeks of the vaccines being approved is pretty remarkable.

More and more facilities are coming on line to administer the vaccine as the numbers ramp up and up - dependent of course on the manufacturer's supply and the ever increasing complexity of the delivery logistics.

Of course there will be problems along the way - here in W Sussex our local GP practice started vaccinating the over 80's just before Christmas, yet in Petworth just a few miles away they have yet to start, despite the GP practices all being, I believe, part of a local grouping of GP practices. I don't know why this should be, but just shows that there are practical issues and stumbling blocks along the way.

The recently announced change to Pfizer's delivery schedule will cause some delays to or roll out in the short term it seems, but will help us and every country in future, hopefully. Meanwhile I hope the AstraZeneca supply chain continues to be robust....

I'm sorry to hear of the delay to your Op Suzanne. I hope it is rearranged quickly for you.

[john.r.davies]

 

12 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi John,

perhaps they have to level down because the supply of the vaccine is finite. 

Would it be fair for the North West to hog all that is available just to keep you happy.

Somebody somewhere is trying very hard to keep the wheels on the truck.

 

Roger

Roger!  Was I asking to 'hog' anything?    No, I was asking for a fair allocation to a project with a proven record for effective use of a precious resource. so that it could continue its work so efficiently.    As Rod has pointed out, until this week, a month since the Pfizer was released, it has been GP practices that have been pro-active in vaccinating their populations.       It has taken that long for Government centres to be opened, and dePfeffel can take no credit at all for the four million already protected.

That is becasue the "truck", the public health services of the UK, has been allowed to decay over the last ten years, and it's wheels were already falling off!    It should be community health that is leading the vaccination effort, but instead those with that expertise have been universally ignored by Government, even excluded from SAGE in favour of centralised policies under the direct "leadership" of politicians.      Who neither know or care about public health, except when it appears in focus groups and polls.

Gin

Edited January 16, 2021 by john.r.davies

[RogerH]

3 minutes ago, john.r.davies said:

 

Roger!  Was I asking to 'hog' anything?    No, I was asking for a fair allocation to a project with a proven record for effective use of a precious resource. so that it could continue its work so efficiently.    

John,  somebody has decided you have had your fair share yet you moan and groan.   Let others have some.They are also dying.

What is really sad is that the 'truck', the public health servcies of the UK, has been allowed to decay over the last ten years.    It should be community health that is leading the vaccination effort, but instead those with that expertise have been universally ignored by Government, even excluded from SAGE in favour of centralised policies under the direct "leadership" of politicians.

And now you know how the supporters of the Hormone VitD3 are feeling   - welcome on board. 

Gin