Motorsport Mickey Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 45 minutes ago, RogerH said: Hi Bob if you want to use the thicker copper Fo8's and that puts the liner too high then simply trim the liner back on your lathe - top or bottom Roger OR...order some copper sheeting of your closest required thickness amount from the internet/e bay and clamp between a couple of 6 mm ply sandwiches pieces and cutout the internal dia required on your home miller or pillar drill. The outside diameters are cut with tin snips, you don't have to be especially dextrous to get a reasonable 3-4 mill ring thickness all around, separate rings of course unless you are magic with the snips. OR...If you don't have a lathe tape a suitable grit wet and dry (80 I think) square to a flat surface (large tiles work well or an old mirror) and reduce the liner height by sitting and removing from the liner top material by back and fro movements occasioned by a 1/4 turn in liner application every minute or 2 - keep measuring though. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 I do have a lathe (doesn't everybody ?) but not sure it would hold a liner securely enough. Anyway Modern & Classic sent me this quote: Machine liner bases, reface block and set liner heights £150.00 Clean and crack test crankshaft £30.00 Polish crankshaft journals(if ok for size) £60.00 Balance crankshaft assembly (internally), weight match pistons and rods £190.00 Dip and clean cylinder block £120.00 Supply and fit new camshaft bearings £60.00 I don't think the liner bases need doing, but happy to let them machine the block top face, & then set liner height I will be balancing the rods & pistons, so that comes off the bill. The cam was a little loose in its bearings so best to replace them. I will supply them with the new 20 thou F o 8 & they can machine liner to suit. If the pistons end up too high I can turn them down on my lathe. Will know more tomorrow after a phone call Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted November 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Lebro said: I do have a lathe (doesn't everybody ?) but not sure it would hold a liner securely enough. Do you have a spare 3 jaw chuck with internal jaws? Just support both ends of the liner by the internal jaws of the two chucks. That was partly the reason I bought this type of tailstock live centre to hold a Boxford threaded chuck. Not as accurate (within 2 thou) as between centres but if you feel picky set it up between two independent 4 jaw chucks. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDG-TOOLS-BOXFORD-REVOLVING-CENTRE-2MT-BOXFORD-THREAD-1-1-2-X-8/293627869785?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3Dc13053b9404d41b5b6623adf6c6eea97%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D370603921920%26itm%3D293627869785%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DMyford&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1 Cheers Peter W Anyway Modern & Classic sent me this quote: Machine liner bases, reface block and set liner heights £150.00 Clean and crack test crankshaft £30.00 Polish crankshaft journals(if ok for size) £60.00 Balance crankshaft assembly (internally), weight match pistons and rods £190.00 Dip and clean cylinder block £120.00 Supply and fit new camshaft bearings £60.00 I don't think the liner bases need doing, but happy to let them machine the block top face, & then set liner height I will be balancing the rods & pistons, so that comes off the bill. The cam was a little loose in its bearings so best to replace them. I will supply them with the new 20 thou F o 8 & they can machine liner to suit. If the pistons end up too high I can turn them down on my lathe. Will know more tomorrow after a phone call Bob. Edited November 8, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Motorsport Mickey Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, Lebro said: I do have a lathe (doesn't everybody ?) but not sure it would hold a liner securely enough. Anyway Modern & Classic sent me this quote: Machine liner bases, reface block and set liner heights £150.00 Clean and crack test crankshaft £30.00 Polish crankshaft journals(if ok for size) £60.00 Balance crankshaft assembly (internally), weight match pistons and rods £190.00 Dip and clean cylinder block £120.00 Supply and fit new camshaft bearings £60.00 I don't think the liner bases need doing, but happy to let them machine the block top face, & then set liner height I will be balancing the rods & pistons, so that comes off the bill. The cam was a little loose in its bearings so best to replace them. I will supply them with the new 20 thou F o 8 & they can machine liner to suit. If the pistons end up too high I can turn them down on my lathe. Will know more tomorrow after a phone call Bob. Bob, The prices look very reasonable but how are Modern and Classic going to reface the block ? Many auto shops will just drop the block on it's sump surface on a grinder or miller and then skim the block surface, but after 50 years the top and bottom surfaces are guaranteed to be out of true. The block should have a dummy crankshaft fitted and then clocked to be parallel on the machine bed which may require the block being shimmed. Then assuming the liner shoulders are still horizontal in the block in 2 planes and depths the liners need fitting onto dry fitted new Fo8 gaskets on top of the liner shoulders and the block cylinder head studs fitted and the head or a boring plate pulled down onto the new liners to 105lb ft (with old cleaned head gasket fitted) and then the head or plate removing before measuring the liner height protrusion, and then the liners being removed and the block skimmed the amount calculated to give you the height you want. I hope they can do that in the price. Mick Richards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: They are mains caps identification to match the caps and block together in case of being reworked and mixed with other parts. +1 I have several caps and 2 blocks. 2 sets of numbers on the caps matched each of the blocks. Bit like the rear seal ali bits. I have several of these, but they go together with matching numbers. +++++++++++ Totally off topic, but amusing... I used to write software for Transco (British Gas). We had a massive database of everything to do with gas meter readings. Everything from latest meter reading to meter serial numbers. A pizzed off employee got sacked and, before he left, decided to transpose the final meter readngs with the meter serial numbers. Took a while to work out what had happened. +++++++++++ Charlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted November 8, 2020 Report Share Posted November 8, 2020 4 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said: Bob, The prices look very reasonable but how are Modern and Classic going to reface the block ? Many auto shops will just drop the block on it's sump surface on a grinder or miller and then skim the block surface, but after 50 years the top and bottom surfaces are guaranteed to be out of true. The block should have a dummy crankshaft fitted and then clocked to be parallel on the machine bed which may require the block being shimmed. Then assuming the liner shoulders are still horizontal in the block in 2 planes and depths the liners need fitting onto dry fitted new Fo8 gaskets on top of the liner shoulders and the block cylinder head studs fitted and the head or a boring plate pulled down onto the new liners to 105lb ft (with old cleaned head gasket fitted) and then the head or plate removing before measuring the liner height protrusion, and then the liners being removed and the block skimmed the amount calculated to give you the height you want. I hope they can do that in the price. Mick Richards Mick. I am aware of the method to determine liner protrusion, & I will discuss who will do what with them tomorrow. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted April 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 Update on fig 8 seals Block is back after laser welding and machining of the liner seats. We have spent some time getting the liners to 0.004” protrusion. Did not get into making fig 8 or turning the liners down although a lot of selective assembly took place. What we have found is that some copper fig 8 are thicker one side to the other by upto 0.0005” useful if you have a slope top block! Different thickness gaskets are helpful of course. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dean Jones Posted Monday at 07:10 AM Report Share Posted Monday at 07:10 AM thanks every one for sharing the detailed and brief overview. it's really helpful for beginner. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted Monday at 08:58 AM Report Share Posted Monday at 08:58 AM (edited) If you want a blow by blow account of rebuilding a 4 pot engine take a look here: https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/74776-tr3-engine-box-re-build/ I did have a fair amount of TRouble getting the liner heights right ! Bob Edited Monday at 09:00 AM by Lebro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted Monday at 10:09 AM Report Share Posted Monday at 10:09 AM (edited) Having had problems in the past with liner heights, when I rebuilt my engine, (coincidentally at about the same time as Bob did his), I entrusted the whole machining exercise to a reputed machine shop, (the same firm that does all the work for Revington) and for about £1,000 they sorted everything including decking the pistons, crack testing the crank and then giving it a re grind and balancing everything. Money well spent as far as I was concerned. They even cleaned everything and blew out the crank. All I had to do was put it back together. Rgds Ian Edited Monday at 06:43 PM by Ian Vincent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted Monday at 11:12 AM Author Report Share Posted Monday at 11:12 AM (edited) 4 hours ago, Dean Jones said: thanks every one for sharing the detailed and brief overview. it's really helpful for beginner. . Hi Dean and welcome. I guess you are aware of this article. https://macysgarage.com/engine rb.htm and this one http://www.tonydrews.com/uncle_jacks_engine_building_tips.htm Edited Monday at 11:13 AM by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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