Figure of 8 seals

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Does your figure of 8 look like this? 

Then you caught it just in time.

Peter W

 

 

[Lebro]

indeed you did !

Bob.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

That was 35 years of corrosion, since the liners were installed. 

Peter W

[Lebro]

Did the liners come out easily ?  I ask because mine will be coming out in the next day or two once I get the engine onto the engine stand. they will have been in for >50 years, & still did not leak !

Bob.

[Charlie D]

Are they steel?

 

[Motorsport Mickey]

2 hours ago, Lebro said:

Did the liners come out easily ?  I ask because mine will be coming out in the next day or two once I get the engine onto the engine stand. they will have been in for >50 years, & still did not leak !

Bob.

Probably copper Fo8 gaskets with a Wellseal covering, this tool pulls liners out at 50 years old Bob

 

The alloy plugs turned shoulders are -10 on a 86 mm liner bore where the shoulder is (the other one is 89mm) and -20 on the outside dia on the block bore. Drop the heavy duty channel with the slotted holes over 2 diagonal cylinder head studs onto old gudgeon pins over the same head studs located onto the block. Screw a couple of head stud nuts loosely onto the studs to prevent possible movement,  locate the threaded bar in position down the liner bore centre and position your chosen plug on the bottom of the liner. The steel support plate painted orange goes behind the alloy plug, it also has an outside dia -20 on the block bore, screw the bottom nut on the threaded bar and screw up until the liner lifts. No damage and the liner could be reused if needed. The liner needs to come up a couple of inches before it can be wiggled out...carefully especially if 89mm they are thin on the liner skirt.

Mick Richards 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Motorsport Mickey

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, Charlie D said:

Are they steel?

 

Steel figure of 8

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Probably copper Fo8 gaskets with a Wellseal covering, this tool pulls liners out at 50 years old Bob

 

The alloy plugs turned shoulders are -10 on a 86 mm liner bore where the shoulder is (the other one is 89mm) and -20 on the outside dia on the block bore. Drop the heavy duty channel with the slotted holes over 2 diagonal cylinder head studs onto old gudgeon pins located onto the block. Screw a couple of head stud nuts loosely onto the studs to prevent possible movement,  locate the threaded bar in position down the liner bore centre and position your chosen plug on the bottom of the liner. The steel support plate painted orange goes behind the alloy plug, it also has an outside dia -20 on the block bore, screw the bottom nut on the threaded bar and screw up until the liner lifts. No damage and the liner could be reused if needed. The liner needs to come up a couple of inches before it can be wiggled out...carefully especially if 89mm they are thin on the liner skirt.

Mick Richards 

Our item for same job.    

Can you guess what it is adapted with?
 

No real effort required, lots of grot in the lower water jacket area though.

Peter W

Edited November 5, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Lebro]

I will make something similar.

Bob.

[Charlie D]

32 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Steel figure of 8

I guess they would have lasted a lot longer if they were copper.

(I wonder if it was it a thickness issue to use steel.)

 

Here is my puller. An old brass gear from an antique photo copier (turned down), a bit of screwed rod, and 2 square washers.

I space it above the head surface using a couple of 1/2 inch sockets.

 

Very satisfying to use. You get a "BANG" as the seal breaks, and then you just wind it out.

 

Charlie.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by Charlie D

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

From my stock of Triumph gaskets......Steel fig 8 is sort of 15 to 16 thou thick.   Copper are sort of 17 to 18 thou thick.     Using my ‘verynear’ callipers 
 

I do not think the copper ones crush down by more than a thou in use.

what say you Mick?

Peter W

Edited November 5, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT

[Motorsport Mickey]

19 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

From my stock of Triumph gaskets......Steel fig 8 is sort of 15 to 16 thou thick.   Copper are sort of 17 to 18 thou thick.     Using my ‘verynear’ callipers 
 

I do not think the copper ones crush down by more that a thou in use.

what say you Mick?

Peter W

2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Probably copper Fo8 gaskets with a Wellseal covering, this tool pulls liners out at 50 years old Bob

 

The alloy plugs turned shoulders are -10 on a 86 mm liner bore where the shoulder is (the other plug is 89mm) and -20 on the outside dia on the block bore. Drop the heavy duty channel with the slotted holes over 2 diagonal cylinder head studs onto old gudgeon pins located onto the block. Screw a couple of head stud nuts loosely onto the studs to prevent possible movement,  locate the threaded bar in position down the liner bore centre and position your chosen plug on the bottom of the liner. The steel support plate painted orange goes behind the alloy plug, it also has an outside dia -20 on the block bore, screw the bottom nut on the threaded bar and screw up until the liner lifts. No damage and the liner could be reused if needed. The liner needs to come up a couple of inches before it can be wiggled out...carefully especially if 89mm they are thin on the liner skirt.

Mick Richards 

 

Not even that Peter, I reckon 3/5ths of bugger all, certainly not enough to have to make allowances for

Mick Richards.

[Dic Doretti]

I rebuilt my TR2 engine on the street in Glasgow many years ago. No chance of using a puller on the liners as the pistons were seized in the bores so I resorted to an aluminium drift and a lump hammer, not easy but they came out in the end and the engine was successfully rebuilt.

          Cheers

          Richard

[Lebro]

On 11/5/2020 at 1:29 PM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Does your figure of 8 look like this? 

Then you caught it just in time.

Peter W

 

 

Taken out yesterday, having been there since Triumph put them in circa 1960.

Shows that copper is the material to use.   There was no evidence of any sealant being used either.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[Charlie D]

Bob,

 

1 hour ago, Lebro said:

There was no evidence of any sealant being used either.

What did the mating faces in the block and on the liners look like?

Charlie

 

[Lebro]

Clean, corrosion free, & shiny once given a wipe.

[Motorsport Mickey]

The trouble with copper Fo8 gaskets are just be careful you don't nick the edges on the flat mating surfaces when you stone them ready for their reuse lol.

Mick Richards

Edited November 8, 2020 by Motorsport Mickey

[stuart]

But yours is an FRE engine Bob, originally I believe they were all steel.

Stuart.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

Taken out yesterday, having been there since Triumph put them in circa 1960.

Shows that copper is the material to use.   There was no evidence of any sealant being used either.

How thick are the copper fig 8s you have just removed? in thousandths of an inch please as I am still struggling with SI units unless I use a calculator.

 

Cheers

Peter W

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 hours ago, Charlie D said:

Bob,

 

What did the mating faces in the block and on the liners look like?

Charlie

 

Regarding the corroded fig 8 the block - The seating area of no 4 just below the black drain tap was pitted where the fig 8 had corroded.  The block is now away being refaced.  The corresponding liner mating face was dark but not pitted.

Cheers

Peter W

 

[Lebro]

Measured thickness of the removed f of 8 is 0.0165" on average

Bob

[Lebro]

2 hours ago, stuart said:

But yours is an FRE engine Bob, originally I believe they were all steel.

Stuart.

Yes, it is a FRE engine, the center main cap, & the block are stamped 57 which I presume is DOM.

F of 8 are definitely copper

[Lebro]

FWIW just measured a new copper one (from TR shop bottom gasket set) 0.020", then measured the steel ones which came with the liner / piston set (also TR shop) 0.015"

Bob

[RogerH]

Hi Bob

if you want to use the thicker copper Fo8's and that puts the liner too high then simply trim the liner back on your lathe - top or bottom

 

Roger

[Motorsport Mickey]

2 hours ago, Lebro said:

Yes, it is a FRE engine, the center main cap, & the block are stamped 57 which I presume is DOM.

F of 8 are definitely copper

Nope !

it you scrape off the c r a p (see what I did there lol) on the front cap with it's alloy sealing block you'll find the same number and possibly an alphabet letter also, same on the rear cap also (normally on the mains bolt register area). They are mains caps identification to match the caps and block together in case of being reworked and mixed with other parts.

Mick Richards 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Motorsport Mickey