Brake/clutch bleeding.

[rvwp]

Hi Guys,

Been putting off bleeding the brakes/clutch on my restored TR4A, the reason being that i like using my Eazybleed system that i have use many times on several different classics.

However, I have often found that getting a seal on the cap has been hit and miss and requires modification to the Eazybeed given caps to achieve the necessary seal. Today I used a spare master cylinder  cap with a union through it to which the pressure is applied.

Surprise, surprise the bl...dy thing leaked fluid, luckily silicone fluid, which although a mess won't eat the paint work!

This is one time too many so I've given up using Easybleed. I would call on a mate to operate the pedal and bleed the old fashion way, but social distancing and lockdown rules don't permit this. I could leave bleeding the brakes until much later but it would be good to see it done.

Question is what about these non return type bleed nipples that in theory only need one person to operate the pedal. Although I think I tried these many years ago and was not impressed. So any idea's on other methods that require one person operation. 

Cheers Rich

[stuart]

Ive never had any problems bleeding the brakes on my own the old fashioned way with a piece of rubber tube and a coffee jar with a few inches of fluid in the bottom. Undo the nipple and then I kneel on the floor and lean in and depress the pedal with one hand whilst watching the bubbles coming out of the tube into the jar, slowly pump the pedal, this is crucial for Sillycon fluid as it forms bubbles very easily. Provided you use good bleed nipples (I buy brass ones from Automec) then you dont get any air bypass that often defeats that method (cheap nipples are a slack fit as soon as you undo them and allow air in around the threads)

I believe the nipples with the one way valves are supposed to work well though Ive never tried them.

Stuart.

[rvwp]

Thanks Stuart, 

Just been looking through Youtube and there are several video's of undertaking one man bleeding using a tube immersed in fluid in  a soda bottle held above the bleed nipple, and just requires the peddle to be pumped until no more bubbles in the  tube. No need to hold the pedal down, worth a look.  Lock off the nipple and repeat on the other 3.

Will try that later, seems good.

Rich

[trchris]

Hi Rich

I use Stuarts method also since being an apprentice back in the early 70s the only problem sometimes if the master cylinder has a wear ridge half way along its bore can damage the seal never happened to me but I have heard of it

Chris 

[stuart]

2 minutes ago, trchris said:

Hi Rich

the only problem sometimes if the master cylinder has a wear ridge half way along its bore can damage the seal never happened to me but I have heard of it

Chris 

This is often the case as you have to use the whole of the travel when bleeding whereas all the time previously only a short bit of the travel was used.

Stuart.

[rvwp]

Hi Stuart,

All my parts are new so no wear problems. Just used the bottle immersed in fluid method, GREAT. So easy, just connect the tube to a  bleed nipple, pump the peddle, no need to hold it down,  check if bubbles in tube, if clear close valve and move on to the next one.  Cost of equipment zero!. Eazybleed has gone into the bin.

Thanks 

Rich

[stillp]

The TRick with the Eezibleed is to not use too much pressure - normal tyre pressure is too high.

Pete

[ntc]

2 hours ago, rvwp said:

Hi Stuart,

All my parts are new so no wear problems. Just used the bottle immersed in fluid method, GREAT. So easy, just connect the tube to a  bleed nipple, pump the peddle, no need to hold it down,  check if bubbles in tube, if clear close valve and move on to the next one.  Cost of equipment zero!. Eazybleed has gone into the bin.

Thanks 

Rich

Dont bin it pressure bleed all day long at 10 psi max.

[Ian Vincent]

Alternatively cut a piece of wood the right length to hold the pedal to the floor when wedged into the front squab of the driver's seat.  I used to use an eezy bleed until the cap started to leak fluid everywhere and I wasn't using silicone fluid.

Rgds Ian

[rvwp]

Yes Ian, I destroyed the paintwork around the Master cylinder using eazybleed on my TR6 in this way, even though it was quickly washed down.  This is the reason I use silicone!

I have used Eazybleed successfully over years on several different classics with 'eventual' success . But pretty well every time it's been messy. Unless you use a very large tyre I have found 10psi is never enough to complete all 4 brakes and invariably it runs out part way through and you have to start again! Even once you get a good seal on the master cylinder, when removing the cap on completion the master cylinder is too full and spillage occurs .

The bottle method as seen on Youtube  is easy and no spillage and is what I will use in the future.

Cheers

Rich

Rich

[Lebro]

I have used Easybleed in the past, & it works well, but like others I found it very difficult to avoid fluid being forced past the MC cap seal (even at low pressures)

I do it the simple way these days, using a rubber pipe with a split along its length near the bottom end of it, The bottom end being sealed with a plug, this acts as a one way valve, & when dunked in a jam jar partially filled with fluid you can see(&hear) the bubbles coming out, followed by fluid, but on lifting the pedal the split closes up, & fresh fluid is drawn down from the MC. It does help to have someone else pumping the pedal, but not essential.

Bob

[RogerH]

Would this be any better.  It sucks rather than push the fluid through the system  Suction Pump

 

If the bottle of top up fluid is suspended upside down above the MC, with a pipe joining both, then it will self regulate the amount of fluid in the MC reservoir and not go empty or over flow

Roger

[harlequin]

20 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Would this be any better.  It sucks rather than push the fluid through the system  Suction Pump

 

If the bottle of top up fluid is suspended upside down above the MC, with a pipe joining both, then it will self regulate the amount of fluid in the MC reservoir and not go empty or over flow

Roger

I have one of the suck type bleeders, it is rather reliant on good quality nipples as Stuart has already mentioned 

George 

[Tim D.]

I use a modified version of Stuart's method.

4 metre long piece of clear silicone tube. Attach to the nipple on one end.. other end placed in a jam jar in plane sight from the driving seat. Slowly pump the pedal until no bubbles are seen. I have also used this set up with the jam jar replaced by the master cylinder reservoir so that it is a closed system and no need to top the system up. Only concern with this is re-introducing air bubbles into the reservoir, but my observation is that they float to the surface.

Cheers

Tim

[rvwp]

Hi Tim,

I can see that you would be able to see when air bubbles cease in the tube in the jam jar, but how do you manage to hold down the peddle and reach the bleed nipple at the wheel cylinder to close it without getting out of the car .

Regards

Rich

[Hamish]

Rich

with the jam jar method the tube from the bleed nipple needs to remain submerged in brake fluid in the jar. You just open the bleed nipple a little and pump away. There is no air reintroduction so you don’t need to shut off the nipple between pumps. 

Once the bubbles stop you lock off the bleed nipple. Job done. 

you do however have to make sure the master cylinder reservoir has fluid in it . If it empties which it can quite quickly you pump air in and you are back to square one. 
 

(it’s a good method for changing brake fluid on each corner as you can see the fluid colour change as the old stuff is pumped out .)

 

[Tim D.]

2 hours ago, rvwp said:

Hi Tim,

I can see that you would be able to see when air bubbles cease in the tube in the jam jar, but how do you manage to hold down the peddle and reach the bleed nipple at the wheel cylinder to close it without getting out of the car .

Regards

Rich

Much like the comment on the Jam Jar method, you just crack open the bleed nipple and then pump away, when the bubbles stop you stop pumping and close the bleed nipple. The system is a closed system into which air cannot enter.

[Waldi]

With this method (leaving the nipple open) I always feared air would enter through the threaded part between nipple an cylinder, so I have always done it with a 2nd person (my wife or son mostly), and closed the nipple when retracting the pedal. This method also gets air bubbles that are stuck better purged out, as the velocity is higher because no oil is sucked back.

Waldi

[Lebro]

That is the best way, no doubt, the next best is to use a tube with a one way valve in it to stop fluid being drawn back up into the system.

Bob.

[stuart]

1 hour ago, Waldi said:

With this method (leaving the nipple open) I always feared air would enter through the threaded part between nipple an cylinder, so I have always done it with a 2nd person (my wife or son mostly), and closed the nipple when retracting the pedal. This method also gets air bubbles that are stuck better purged out, as the velocity is higher because no oil is sucked back.

Waldi

Hence my comment about poorly fitting bleed nipples, the usual supplied cheap steel ones are the worst culprits, the brass ones from Automec are a better fit.

Stuart.