TR3 engine & box re-build

[Ian Vincent]

2 hours ago, iain said:

Looks like it was in pretty good nick, with the exception of the pistons and rings.
Have you checked the block for the crack that tends to happen next to the NSR  head stud? Increasingly common I’m told. 
Iain

Mine was cracked at NSF (and in the centre), and wasn’t in nearly such good nick as yours appears to be Bob. 

Rgds Ian

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Ian Vincent

[Lebro]

Todays work was to trial fit a couple of the new liners, & test to see if the Maxspeeding con rods cleared the bottom of those liners. There had been some question about this in another topic.

Well answer is there is plenty of clearance.

    

Other than that I have just been cleaning everything up, &running taps through all the threaded holes.

Now have a pile of parts to take to machine shop.

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[Dave I O W]

Well done Bob, I'm following your thread with great interest, All the best with the rebuild of your engine,

Cheers

Dave.

[Lebro]

Off to Machine shop in a mo' , oil pump check when I get back.

Bob.

[AndyR100]

9 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Off to Machine shop in a mo' , oil pump check when I get back.

Bob.

You have done well to get C&M lined up so quickly, they often have quite a wait - good job!

....... Andy 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

11 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Off to Machine shop in a mo' , oil pump check when I get back.

Bob.

You are in the queue then behind us.   Our block went in last Thursday.  Same process required as yours.

cheers

Peter W

PS. I have a couple of NOS Standard Triumph oil pump rotor sets if you get stuck.  The ones with the cross pinned inner rotor.  

[Ian Vincent]

To be fair Peter, I have a County oil pump from the TR Shop and that has a cross pinned rotor as well.  The only way you could tell it from the original is the fact that it is held together with metric fasteners.  The clearances are bang on the money.

Rgds Ian

[RogerH]

6 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

To be fair Peter, I have a County oil pump from the TR Shop and that has a cross pinned rotor as well.  The only way you could tell it from the original is the fact that it is held together with metric fasteners.  The clearances are bang on the money.

Rgds Ian

+1

 

Roger

[Lebro]

So, stripped & cleaned up the oil pump, then measured everything.

The clearance between the inner & outer rotors was 4 thou which is larger than it should be, but I think the main issue which, together with worn main & big end shells caused drooping oil pressure when hot was the clearance between rotors & the end plate which was 0.004" greater than it should have been.

So with a bit of careful fileing , & lapping on a flat surface got his down to specified (0.0025")

 

Thank you for the offer of rotors Peter, but This should be ok now, & not too hard to get to in the future if it's still not quite there. I suspect new rotors will now be too long for my shortened housing.

Not content with having an engine in bits:

  

Moss "repair kit" arrived today, & together with the uprated (3 bearings) counter gear should give this box a new lease of life. It's a saloon box circa 1972.

Guess what  The taper pin in the cross shaft came out intact !

More fun with the box tomorrow.

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, RogerH said:

+1

 

Roger

They have got their act together then since I last bought one from them.  Used to be a simple spline fitted inner rotor on the shaft and the vane clearances were on top limit from new.

Cheers

Peter W

[Lebro]

This mornings progress:

  

Only hard part is removing rear bearing from mainshaft

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[billy l]

I see you've got syncro on first, Nice. cheers, Bill.

[Lebro]

1972 saloon box

[Hamish]

This is the part I can do - the dismantling 

 

it’s the putting it all back together I struggle with. 
 

great blog Bob. 

[Lebro]

Funny you should say that, there quite a number of pitfalls one can enter, & I seem to have fallen down all of them.

The thrust washers for the coutersaft gear will wriggle themselves into an impossible to recover position at the slightest opertunity- requiring it all to come apart again. Solved this one by making a "dummy layshaft" (a tube of the right diameter cut to the exact same length as the gear + the two washers.)

Also had to make the detent in the washers deeper to properly locate in the groove in the casing.

You need the dummy shaft for 3 synchro boxes, & the TR2 manual tells you so, but the TR4 manual describes how to assemble it all with out one.

The big bearings supplied in the kit (from a supplier well known to us) are very cheap ones, & by the time I had drifted them onto the two shafts they both felt as rough as hell, so have now ordered two quality bearings from Simply bearings (RHP MJ 1¼ N). Another problem was the new three bearing counter gear, the major diameter of the splines was bigger than my original, the gears slid on to it OK, but the spacer sleeve would not, measurements showed it to be a considerable interference fit !

Luckily the sleeve was soft steel, so I bored it out a little to fit.

In the past I have re-built Morris 1000, TR3, TR4, & Stag gearboxes, and never had this much trouble.

Day off tomorrow, hopefully new bearing will arrive on Friday so I can get it back together.

Polishing the mainshaft to try to get a less tight fit of the ball bearing. (still very tight, so will do a bit more when new bearing arrive.

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[stuart]

29 minutes ago, Lebro said:

Funny you should say that, there quite a number of pitfalls one can enter, & I seem to have fallen down all of them.

The thrust washers for the coutersaft gear will wriggle themselves into an impossible to recover position at the slightest opertunity- requiring it all to come apart again. Solved this one by making a "dummy layshaft" (a tube of the right diameter cut to the exact same length as the gear + the two washers.)

Also had to make the detent in the washers deeper to properly locate in the groove in the casing.

You need the dummy shaft for 3 synchro boxes, & the TR2 manual tells you so, but the TR4 manual describes how to assemble it all with out one.

The big bearings supplied in the kit (from a supplier well known to us) are very cheap ones, & by the time I had drifted them onto the two shafts they both felt as rough as hell, so have now ordered two quality bearings from Simply bearings (RHP MJ 1¼ N). Another problem was the new three bearing counter gear, the major diameter of the splines was bigger than my original, the gears slid on to it OK, but the spacer sleeve would not, measurements showed it to be a considerable interference fit !

Luckily the sleeve was soft steel, so I bored it out a little to fit.

In the past I have re-built Morris 1000, TR3, TR4, & Stag gearboxes, and never had this much trouble.

Day off tomorrow, hopefully new bearing will arrive on Friday so I can get it back together.

Bob.

So you`ll not be recommending that re-build kit then Bob?

Stuart.

[Lebro]

No, I won't !  I should have got the 3 bearing counter gear & bearings from Mr Cox, & the other bearing from a reputable bearing supplier.

Just looked up the price for a single bearing of the sort used in the kit (SCH) £16. & that's probably with a mark up, OM bearings (RPH) cost around £80.

Also, the kit contains a lot of things I don't need, like alternative roller bearings presumably for later cars

I found this video interesting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyoMuE4gDQ

Bob.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Lebro

[Lebro]

Not a lot of progress as waiting for new bearings to arrive.

I have drilled (14mm) & tapped (M16 X 2) my Saloon gearbox top to take an overdrive enable switch for 2nd gear. (Saloons don't have this as their overdrives are rated for lower torque than TR ones. Mine has been re-built (Hardy's) & uprated to TR spec) The 1st / 2nd selector fork is the same as used in TR box's, & has the raised section (with a ramp) to press on the switch.

Thank you Roger for the loan of tap.  In looking for a switch to put in it I learned the the thread on modern versions of the switch (Lucas 30972) have this metric thread, & not the very similar original imperial one.

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro

[Ralph Whitaker]

I am pleased to see you can still get RHP bearings. I did my apprenticeship at RHP Ferrybridge working on huge Wickman multi spindle bar lathes. The main product at Ferrybridge were clutch release and water pump bearings for the motor industry. Ferrybridge used to be Pollard bearings and was still known  as "Pollards" for many years after becoming the P in RHP.  Taken over in the eighties by Toyo of Japan. I wonder if the bearing you are getting are manufactured by Toyo and sold under the RHP name, or whether they are new old stock. They are still about, see the pic of the one I bought recently. It happens to be a TR clutch release bearing, but won`t fit my car as I have a later clutch, I just had to have it and it sits in my curio cabinet.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

3 hours ago, Lebro said:

Not a lot of progress as waiting for new bearings to arrive.

I have drilled (14mm) & tapped (M16 X 2) my Saloon gearbox top to take an overdrive enable switch for 2nd gear. (Saloons don't have this as their overdrives are rated for lower torque than TR ones. Mine has been re-built (Hardy's) & uprated to TR spec) The 1st / 2nd selector fork is the same as used in TR box's, & has the raised section (with a ramp) to press on the switch.

Thank you Roger for the loan of tap.  In looking for a switch to put in it I learned the the thread on modern versions of the switch (Lucas 30972) have this metric thread, & not the very similar original imperial one.

Bob.

Are you going to add a dipstick while in the area and have the drill set up?

I have a sketch of a dipstick somewhere if you do not have the one from your old 3 synchro box.  I find filling through the dipstick hole then removing the side filler hole to get the level a lot easier than squirting oil through the side hole.  Unless you have already drilled your tunnel and fitted an access bung.

Cheers

Peter W

[Ian Vincent]

I can second Peter's comment about a dipstick, I have one and it makes oil checkups and topping up a whole lot easier.  Even more so if you cut a hole in your tunnel over the top of it and add a rubber bung.  If you need a photo, I can provide one.

Rgds Ian

Edited November 14, 2020 by Ian Vincent

[David Owen]

 

 

2 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

I can second Peter's comment about a dipstick, I have one and it makes oil checkups and topping up a whole lot easier.  Even more so if you cut a hole in your tunnel over the top of it and add a rubber bung.  If you need a photo, I can provide one.

Rgds Ian

 

Yes please.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by David Owen

[Ian Vincent]

1 hour ago, David Owen said:

 

 

 

Yes please.

 

Now added.  If you need anymore, please let me know.

Rgds Ian

[David Owen]

7 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

Now added.  If you need anymore, please let me know.

Rgds Ian

 

Thank you.  Great timing.

[Lebro]

Hmm I had not thought of that. last time I had to drain & re-fill I ran a flexible pipe from the level check hole, out through the tunnel hole where the dipstick would be I f I had one, then up next to the windscreen, where I inserted a funnel. I then poured in the correct quantity of oil. it worked quite well.

If I got my hands on a dipstick I would probably do that mod though.

Todays work:

    

drilling fork for safety cross bolt, & driiling through original hole so a broken off taper bolt can be punched out.

(Mine wasn't by the way)

 

Bob.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lebro