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TR3 engine & box re-build


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But if you have too much clearance you run the risk of a larger piece of detritus getting trapped between the follower and the bore. 

FWIW I bought a couple of 1” dia brass bottle brushes which I could fit in my cordless drill and insert into the bores to ensure they were absolutely spotless before I started reassembly. 

And when I’d polished my followers (also drilled) they were 23.78mm dia. 

Rgds Ian

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My plan at the moment is either to reuse my existing cam & followers (the followers looked to be in perfect condition when I had them out earlier this year)

or use the Newman PH1 & their chilled iron cam followers.  will know more when I get the cam out.

Bob.

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Good morning Bob,

On the assumption that your followers have just been quietly doing their job, it would be useful if during the strip down you could measure the diameter of a few of them and post the result on here.

Rgds Ian

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No problem, I will do just that.  (engine still in car at the moment, getting a few other jobs out of the way first !)

Bob.

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Progress so far:

549912397_Partsremoved.thumb.jpg.d90c6c39f32e6a49354384568f22a0ee.jpg 355793848_Radiatorout.thumb.jpg.0cf846780a21f13291ea24e4901939d1.jpg 1720975682_Ropesattached.thumb.jpg.8a676f0379fc8320ea6cd8a37b518ee8.jpg 400671866_liftingout.thumb.jpg.18c2a8a5d4182ecc645c231558154b13.jpg 139664668_engineboxout.thumb.jpg.2af2d05c99579a54feba81b20923a249.jpg 1903575086_gearboxoff.thumb.jpg.faa32caf0afd37d8fd92ff18259acb29.jpg

A word of caution to anyone who has this type of hoist balancer:

Balancer.jpg.6de6185ff7054188671c83aeb6a85128.jpg 

While holding the red rope to steady it, and while turning the handle to raise the gearbox, & lower the engine, the nyloc nut on the end of the threaded rod either unscrewed it's self, or stripped it's thread (I think the former) & came off resulting in the black part & the whole rod slipping towards the red rope end (very rapidly) As I was holding the red rope my fingers got trapped between the rope & the black slider. It took me a few seconds to work out that the only way I could release my fingers was to lower the engine onto whatever was below it (it was half way out at the time) That did take the tension off my  fingers, which were starting to throb by this stage. After much hopping about & swearing to my self, I managed to put the balancer back together, & completed the removal of the engine. Fingers now OK, only damage was a slightly bent number plate where the engine sat on it.

So, if you have one of these, weld the nut onto the shaft, that will be my first job tomorrow.

Bob.

P.S. I have resized the above photos to all fit on one line except for the last one, it looks to be how I wish the post to look, but I will now press submit reply to see what happens -----

 

Yep, once again all my formatting has gone & the photos are full size arhhhhhh

Edited by Lebro
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Ouch bet that was painful Bob, I have a slightly different version of that leveller and the end nut is welded on from new.

Stuart.

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Well done Bob.  So how long did that little job take, including the hopping and swearing?

I  have the reverse task to undertake starting tomorrow.  Assemble the engine crane, unhitch the engine from the stand using said crane, attach flywheel, clutch and gearbox so that I can lift the lump back in and pull the car back into my single garage.

Hopefully it goes according to plan and I don't get left with a car minus engine sticking half out of the garage tomorrow evening.

Rgds Ian

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Well done Bob great progress. Phew that you got away with the mishap hope you are ok. 
 

your car set up looks so similar to mine. Exhaust, starter motor, clutch, steering box etc etc

really interested in this thread. 
you’ll have me doing mine with big pistons and lively cams before too long. 
keep up the great posts. 

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3 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

Well done Bob.  So how long did that little job take, including the hopping and swearing?

I  have the reverse task to undertake starting tomorrow.  Assemble the engine crane, unhitch the engine from the stand using said crane, attach flywheel, clutch and gearbox so that I can lift the lump back in and pull the car back into my single garage.

Hopefully it goes according to plan and I don't get left with a car minus engine sticking half out of the garage tomorrow evening.

Rgds Ian

Ian.

Took the gearbox cover off last week, - about 1 hour, took the front off a day or so later probably around 1½ hours (no rusted screws !)

Started taking all the external bits off the engine yesterday - about ½ the day, then pulled it out this morning, about 2 hours including removing the gearbox mount & short section of exhaust between manifold & 1st box. After lunch I took off gearbox, clutch & flywheel, & tried to fit to engine stand, but failed due to the arms being too long for the engine,I think this stand (borrowed from a TVG member) is meant for much larger engines. Now got permission to modify the arms to fit, and have ordered some high tensile UNC bolts suitable to bolt to the engine. meanwhile I can start by removing the head and all the other bits around the outside.

Good luck with yours tomorrow.

Bob

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On 10/29/2020 at 8:19 AM, Ian Vincent said:

Good morning Bob,

On the assumption that your followers have just been quietly doing their job, it would be useful if during the strip down you could measure the diameter of a few of them and post the result on here.

Rgds Ian

Ok so engine is apart except for crank, liners, sump etc till I can get it onto the engine stand.

Cam followers measure as follows:

0.93635  0.93615  0.93585  0.93590  0.93599  0.93590  0.93610  0.93630 

So smallest clearance to your bore measurement of 0.9375 is 0.00115, & largest is 0.00165

I also measured the camshaft, front bearing 1.871 (in factory tolerance) next three bearings 1.715 (2 thou under factory tolerance)

cam lift was 0.255 on 5 of the lobes, & 0.256 on the others. Moss say factory standard was 0.260, The cam does not look at all worn.

Bob.

 

Edited by Lebro
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Thanks for the info Bob, as I have already posted above, my followers measured a consistent 23.78mm or 0.9362" so pretty much in the middle of the range you have measured.

And FWIW, the engine and gearbox went back in today without undue bother, I started at about 08:30 and was all cleared up by 14:00 with the car back in the garage and up on ramps ready for me to finish connecting up the various wires and pipes and replace the gearbox tunnel cover and front shroud.

Rgds Ian

Edited by Ian Vincent
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Hi Ian, 

whose followers did you use? Were they supplied by Hamlin? 
I had along chat with Mark Hamlin and we came to the conclusion that the tuftrided followers were too big, certainly more like 0.9375 than your more reasonable 0.9362. Yours give a clearance of 0.0013” which is more than I have achieved with the best part of a day on the tuftrided versions. I have my fingers crossed they will not stick when I fire it up this weekend.
Iain

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So, I now have a dilemma - do I re use the original cam (which seems to be pretty much as it should be) & followers (also in very good nick)

or, go for the Newman PH1 cam (fastish road) & use my followers, or the Newman cam & new Newman followers ?

decisions decisions !

Bob.

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2 hours ago, iain said:

Hi Ian, 

whose followers did you use? Were they supplied by Hamlin? 
I had along chat with Mark Hamlin and we came to the conclusion that the tuftrided followers were too big, certainly more like 0.9375 than your more reasonable 0.9362. Yours give a clearance of 0.0013” which is more than I have achieved with the best part of a day on the tuftrided versions. I have my fingers crossed they will not stick when I fire it up this weekend.
Iain

Hi Iain,

My followers came from Newman.  I originally ordered and paid for the chilled version to go with my PH1 camshaft but I assume that they were out of stock with the chilled iron version and sent the drilled and tuftrided ones instead.  Not having a lathe, I mounted them in my bench drill and polished them with 1200 grit wet and dry using WD40 as a lubricant.

Rgds Ian

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25 minutes ago, Lebro said:

So, I now have a dilemma - do I re use the original cam (which seems to be pretty much as it should be) & followers (also in very good nick)

or, go for the Newman PH1 cam (fastish road) & use my followers, or the Newman cam & new Newman followers ?

decisions decisions !

Bob.

All the experts say don't change the cam without changing the followers and to avoid warranty issues make sure you buy the followers from the cam supplier.

The cost of a new set of followers is not the issue, the Newman chilled iron ones only cost about £40, it's the risk of ending up with sticking followers that don't rotate properly.  If I were in your position with a cam that is outside factory tolerances, I would be inclined to replace it along with the followers.  One of the advantages of the Newman cam is that it has the same timing as the standard one, i.e. 113 deg. ATDC, but other camshafts are available.

Rgds Ian

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37 minutes ago, Ian Vincent said:

All the experts say don't change the cam without changing the followers and to avoid warranty issues make sure you buy the followers from the cam supplier.

The cost of a new set of followers is not the issue, the Newman chilled iron ones only cost about £40, it's the risk of ending up with sticking followers that don't rotate properly.  If I were in your position with a cam that is outside factory tolerances, I would be inclined to replace it along with the followers.  One of the advantages of the Newman cam is that it has the same timing as the standard one, i.e. 113 deg. ATDC, but other camshafts are available.

Rgds Ian

I think Timing for Newman PH1 in a TR 2-4A is 110 degree atdc full lift inlet.   
 

Cheers

Peter W
 

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Bob

given the head work you have done this year. (Another great picture thread by the way)

Also you have full access with the engine out I would go for a warmer cam and that cam suppliers followers. But unfortunately it appears the new followers need fine checking for tolerance-wherever they are from.
that cam may then dictate the valve springs ?  I wouldn’t  go for a cam that needs heavyweight springs.

My 2 penny worth

 

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I am also warming towards the "warmer cam" option, Roger seems impressed by the Newman one, and not so much by a Moss supplied one (not sure which one though). I notice from the Moss web site that the "standard" cam they offer is the 4A cam which seems to have different lift & timing to the original TR3 one.

I think I need to create a table showing timings & lifts for all the options, then make a decision, unless anyone can recommend a cam for improved power, without loosing too much low down torque.

Bob

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Perhaps a call to the known independent  suppliers (maybe those acting in race/rally prep as they have hands on experience rather than just parts sellers)   And ask for the cam specs  so you can compare profiles and timings in your spreadsheet

 

you are a better man than I to then interpret these numbers into power, torque and driving characteristics.

 

(or have a std cam and go 89mm ?!?!? :ph34r:

 

Or both 89mm and hotter cam:ph34r::ph34r:

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9 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I think Timing for Newman PH1 in a TR 2-4A is 110 degree atdc full lift inlet.   
 

Cheers

Peter W
 

You are right Peter. My mistake. 

Rgds Ian

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