TR3 engine & box re-build

[Lebro]

All those who suggested I wrote an article for TRacion about all this - I have just submitted it to Mike Jennings, we will see what happens next.

Bob

[Hamish]

That’s a nice thing to do Bob. Be great to see it in print in a real magazine. You should be proud. 
 

H

[Phil Kirk]

Well done Bob,

It would be great if this whole topic could be pinned , if Bob and the mods think it should be.

There is so much information about so many things I think it would be a shame for it to drift out of sight.

Cheers Phil

 

[Harbottle]

Hi Bob. I think the word “Article “ Is not big enough to cover what you have done. It will be good if we have a hard copy complete with pictures to refer too.

Well done again.

Paul

[Lebro]

You will have if it gets published, otherwise I can send you a .pdf  (too big to put on here)

Bob.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Lebro

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

2 minutes ago, Lebro said:

You will have if it gets published, otherwise I can send you a .pdf  (too big to put on here)

Bob.

Don’t hold your breath.....

I have waited more than a year now for TR Action to publish my ‘ New  Product Release’ article on the 602219. Steel jack hole plugs that I have had remade.   
I have submitted it twice now in different formats ( pdf, doc, docx, ind., jpg). with separate photos.  Still not inserted in our club magazine.  

Peter W

[iain]

10 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Don’t hold your breath.....

I have waited more than a year now for TR Action to publish my ‘ New  Product Release’ article on the 602219. Steel jack hole plugs that I have had remade.   
I have submitted it twice now in different formats ( pdf, doc, docx, ind., jpg). with separate photos.  Still not inserted in our club magazine.  

Peter W

That’s disappointing to hear.

[Motorsport Mickey]

39 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Don’t hold your breath.....

I have waited more than a year now for TR Action to publish my ‘ New  Product Release’ article on the 602219. Steel jack hole plugs that I have had remade.   
I have submitted it twice now in different formats ( pdf, doc, docx, ind., jpg). with separate photos.  Still not inserted in our club magazine.  

Peter W

But on the other hand we will be regaled about “ Marjorie looked good in her Xmas jumper “ in the social section so loved by the “ majority” .

You know those who count ! that the management committee takes note of that if TRaction was to be binned and instead published by a push of a button, ...on time  would resign their membership.

Unlike those members the management committee couldn’t give 2 figs about, the 200 souls that post here regularly on the forum and make it the resource that the people with TRs need. They would dearly love it if we just went and moved too another club ! 
Has anybody seen TRaction yet for February, I’m getting anxious. ?

Mick Richards

Edited January 2, 2021 by Motorsport Mickey

[David Owen]

4 minutes ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

But on the other hand we will be regaled about “ Marjorie looked good in her Xmas jumper “ in the social section so loved by the “ majority” .

You know those who count ! that the management committee takes note of that if TRaction was to be binned and instead published by a push of a button, ...on time  would resign their membership.

Unlike those members the management committee couldn’t give 2 figs about, the 200 souls that post here regularly on the forum and make it the resource that the people with TRs need. They would dearly love it if we just went and moved too another club ! 
Has anybody seen TRaction yet for February, I’m getting anxious. ?

Mick Richards

 

Is this designed to be an international Forum or is it thought to be UK focussed?

Edited January 2, 2021 by David Owen

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

Sorry Thread Drift.

 

For me this is an international group forum.

I am happy to share my knowledge and experience of Triumph TR ownership with all that choose to read it.  Over the years I have shared with owners from all parts of the world through this forum and currently see no reason not to continue.  
 

Does that make the forum a “breakaway’’ group like the once mooted ‘Sidescreen  Register’?

 

Peter W

 

[ntc]

On 12/26/2020 at 3:47 PM, Lebro said:

Put a few more miles on the clock today (since weather is downhill from now) went up the motorway to junction 6, turned round, went to junction 10, then came back through Cobham, around 55 miles. all going well. oil pressure holding up well at 70 at 2000RPM, dropping to 20 at slow tickover (very hot by then) & it is only running in oil.

Just done a compression check -  209  200 203  206  PSI  was around 180 before the rebuild.

In tidying up, I took the rings off the old pistons, & noticed that the top ring on one of them had worn extremely thin

Very surprised with today’s fuel you are not getting pinking 

[Lebro]

I use Esso "super" which is 99 octane, & round these parts does not contain ethanol (allegedly) No sign of pinking so far. The calculated CR was 10:1

Bob.

[FastMat]

Hello Bob

I have read your engine rebuild storty with some interest.

I am owner of a TR3A and plan, to do a similar job in one of the next winters. I am just starting to buy some of the parts, i will need. Generally the engine is running still smoothly, but emitting sometimes a bit blue smoke, which may be caused by worn piston rings. As said, still running and therefore no urge, to do the Job...

I was wondering, which make of pistons and liners you used?

I am a bit unsure about the quality of parts, which are currently sold

 

Matthias

[Lebro]

Hi Matthias.

I chose an easy route to enlarging the capacity of my engine, I simply purchased the 87mm piston / liner set from The TR Shop.

They may not be the best possible solution, but they were not too expensive, & came with liners, pistons & rings. I could see nothing wrong with the quality of the parts, the pistons are pretty much the same length as the original TRiumph ones, although without the split skirt.   Only time will tell if I made the right decision, I suspect they will outlast my usage of the car !

Good luck with the rebuild.

Bob.

[Motorsport Mickey]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:05 PM, FastMat said:

Hello Bob

I have read your engine rebuild storty with some interest.

I am owner of a TR3A and plan, to do a similar job in one of the next winters. I am just starting to buy some of the parts, i will need. Generally the engine is running still smoothly, but emitting sometimes a bit blue smoke, which may be caused by worn piston rings. As said, still running and therefore no urge, to do the Job...

I was wondering, which make of pistons and liners you used?

I am a bit unsure about the quality of parts, which are currently sold

 

Matthias

Hold on there ! unless you  WANT to replace pistons and liners you may have an easier, cheaper and more fun way of rectifying.

Once we used them as our daily cars completing 15 - 30,000 miles per annum and even a spot of competition at the weekend in club races or autosolos, the old adage of "race on Sunday, drive too work on Monday" sold a lot of cars. Now in the main these TRs are relegated to "trophy" car standards, used a couple of times a week, and a nice 50mph trip "easyfooting" the throttle on weekends to beauty spots (" mind my hair " comes up a lot), ...ideal for glazing the bores. The rings and upper cylinder bores becoming glazed (especially so if using synthetic oils) and the scraping action of the piston rings essential to remove oil from the combustion area is compromised and allows standing oil to be compressed and burnt ...viola bit of blue smoke which gives the impression of worn rings or cylinder bores.

It's a tale often recounted in many classic forums and horror stories of complete engine strips and costly replacement of parts with classic car garages ( many car owners now being pension rich, time is more important than money) improving their profit levels exponentially abound. But if it is glazed bores or rings you stand a strong chance of rectifying them without handling a spanner or spending money on parts.

Change the way the car is driven. The piston rings need expanding within the bores in use and forced into engagement with the cylinder liner bore surfaces "gouging" ( steady, we are talking at microscopic levels) complimentary grooves in rings and liners which allows better sealing and excess oil to be scraped off into the sump and preventing it being burnt...that's how the system works.

Google BMEP*  (Brake Mean Effective pressure) and read up on it's function, the engine reaches the most compression pressure upon it's downward power stroke under load and this is where the car and engine needs to be used to fully expand the rings as itemised above. The way to achieve it whilst driving it and to load the engine, is to find a long uphill gradient (motorway gradients are good for this) select 4th gear and with the engine revs about 1000 revs below where the max torque is... compressive force (about 3500 revs  commonly on standard camshafts) and then floor the throttle and keep it buried in the carpet as the car accelerates. When about 500 revs past the max torque brake the car down to the 2500 revs and repeat, and repeat and repeat, on a new engine I'll drive like this for maybe an hour, going one way and returning on the other sides gradient on the motorway. On a race engine on a rolling road it takes about 20 minutes when the road operator selects max torque and loads the engine on the rollers which makes it easy to achieve...maybe £50 in cost. When the engine is bedded in I still use a loading excercise in use maybe once a month to counter any glazing tendecies, no ...driving it like you stole it won't work, too many revs used and not enough engine loading. My road car Ford S max engine noticeably works better after a 2000 mile caravan towing holiday where these actions are carried out in general use without special driving.  

Of course it may be that your car has been well used and the piston rings and liners need replacing (maybe you've owned it the last 30 years and driven 120,000 miles in it) in which case any bedding in action as above should be used when you reworked the engine.

Mick Richards  

Edited March 26, 2021 by Motorsport Mickey

[Bfg]

That's brilliant Mickey Thank you.  I like that.

Matthias issues may also be associated with worn valve guides ? ..depending of course when he see the bit of blue smoke.

Pete

[John Morrison]

Welcome Mattias,

you will see, that you will have all the help and advice you

will need here, on The TR Register Forum.

Good Luck,

John.

[David Owen]

7 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

Hold on there ! unless you  WANT to replace pistons and liners you may have an easier, cheaper and more fun way of rectifying.

Once we used them as our daily cars completing 15 - 30,000 miles per annum and even a spot of competition at the weekend in club races or autosolos, the old adage of "race on Sunday, drive too work on Monday" sold a lot of cars. Now in the main these TRs are relegated to "trophy" car standards, used a couple of times a week, and a nice 50mph trip "eayfooting" the throttle on weekends to beauty spots (" mind my hair " comes up a lot), ...ideal for glazing the bores. The rings and upper cylinder bores becoming glazed (especially so if using synthetic oils) and the scraping action of the piston rings essential to remove oil from the combustion area is compromised and allows standing oil to be compressed and burnt ...viola bit of blue smoke which gives the impression of worn rings or cylinder bores.

It's a tale often recounted in many classic forums and horror stories of complete engine strips and costly replacement of parts with classic car garages ( many car owners now being pension rich, time is more important than money) improving their profit levels exponentially abound. But if it is glazed bores or rings you stand a strong chance of rectifying them without handling a spanner or spending money on parts.

Change the way the car is driven. The piston rings need expanding within the bores in use and forced into engagement with the cylinder liner bore surfaces "gouging" ( steady, we are talking at microscopic levels) complimentary grooves in rings and liners which allows better sealing and excess oil to be scraped off into the sump and preventing it being burnt...that's how the system works.

Google BMEP*  (Brake Mean Effective pressure) and read up on it's function, the engine reaches the most compression pressure upon it's downward power stroke under load and this is where the car and engine needs to be used to fully expand the rings as itemised above. The way to achieve it whilst driving it and to load the engine, is to find a long uphill gradient (motorway gradients are good for this) select 4th gear and with the engine revs about 1000 revs below where the max torque is... compressive force (about 3500 revs  commonly on standard camshafts) and then floor the throttle and keep it buried in the carpet as the car accelerates. When about 500 revs past the max torque brake the car down to the 2500 revs and repeat, and repeat and repeat, on a new engine I'll drive like this for maybe an hour, going one way and returning on the other sides gradient on the motorway. On a race engine on a rolling road it takes about 20 minutes when the road operator selects max torque and loads the engine on the rollers which makes it easy to achieve...maybe £50 in cost. When the engine is bedded in I still use a loading excercise in use maybe once a month to counter any glazing tendecies, no ...driving it like you stole it won't work, too many revs used and not enough engine loading. My road car Ford S max engine noticeably works better after a 2000 mile caravan towing holiday where these actions are carried out in general use without special driving.  

Of course it may be that your car has been well used and the piston rings and liners need replacing (maybe you've owned it the last 30 years and driven 120,000 miles in it) in which case any bedding in action as above should be used when you reworked the engine.

Mick Richards  

 

A full semester's learning in one post.  Thank you.

[FastMat]

Thanks a lot for the advices.

What Mick has written sounds interesting. I will give it a try. The best thing is, that It does not cost me anything

And no, i do not own the car since the last 30 years. I got it from US, did a lot of work on body and suspension and have it in driving condition since 3 years. It is not a daily driver, but more the weekend car.

I did not do anything on the engine, as it was running properly and the compression check did not show significant differences between the 4 cylinders.

As i said, i don't plan for an immediate rebuild, but only for the future. If i do not need it, the better

 

best regards

M;atthias

[David Owen]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:42 AM, Lebro said:

All those who suggested I wrote an article for TRacion about all this - I have just submitted it to Mike Jennings, we will see what happens next.

Bob

 

 

Has anything happened with this?

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

….just call me Cassandra.

[David Owen]

42 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

….just call me Cassandra.

I'd rather call you published.

[Lebro]

I was told that it would come out at some stage, but not under the technicalities section.

Bob.

[David Owen]

8 hours ago, Lebro said:

I was told that it would come out at some stage, but not under the technicalities section.

Bob.

 

 

Well there is a picture of Hamish tearing around and looking fast in this month's edition.

[Hamish]

2 hours ago, David Owen said:

 

 

Well there is a picture of Hamish tearing around and looking fast in this month's edition.

Just very creative photography. !