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Massive auction of TR parts and cars


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The most that I have seen the asking price for a 5 is £75,000 with the exception of the Silverstone auctions one where the reserve was £85,000 and was described as possibly the best TR5 in the world and it didn't sell on the day. This one has gone for £73278, is apparently a 250 in a non standard colour with replacement engine and gearbox and I guess quite a few other bits borrowed and others missing - strange?

I imagined it would have made about £30,000 to £35,000 as it must be a bit of a punt?

...but what do I know?

Tim

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Just a couple of questions about the registration. I’m confused why this is ACR 177K, though data suggests that it is an import ( but not from non EU countries I believe). So does that rule out a TR250 as am I correct in the assumption they were US market only?

Other information recorded is very sketchy and maybe not credible. This is the info which will ( or should) appear on that V5C. From how many nations within Europe would a RHD TR5 import come from? 

First reg 29/09/71 

9 Keepers

VIN CP995

Engine: CP707E

Year of manufacture: 1969

Shows as IMPORT

The Chassis and engine numbers both seem curtailed but do the prefixes stack up?

I note it’s supposed to come from St. Helier but why are the full engine/ chassis numbers not disclosed?

Kevin

Edited by boxofbits
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Interesting to see the cost comments.  As far as I am aware the hammer price was £62.1k.  Vat is on that

figure making £74,520.  Then 15% commission on the hammer price of £62.1k making an additional £9315

then 20% on the 9315 making £1863 meaning a barely believable final figure of £85,698 as Brydon says.

Probably needs around £20k to complete by a professional company unless bought by a DIY guy and that,

surely makes it the first £100k TR5 ?  By all means question my figures but I am confident they are fairly

accurate.   The TR world has gone mad, surely ?  Anyone any idea who the buyer was ?

Rob

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2 hours ago, ntc said:

It is not you know better than that.

Neil , just wondering  why the gentleman said that.

I would then have replied accordingly.

Conrad.

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1 hour ago, openroad said:

Neil , just wondering  why the gentleman said that.

I would then have replied accordingly.

Conrad.

Conrad (David) please feel free to tell all on here mine and your involvement in the purchase of the car in question prior so there is no doubt 

Edited by ntc
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1 hour ago, thescrapman said:

The numbers are not curtailed, if you don't make many cars to start with, the numbers don't get very long.

It didn't have overdrive either by look of it, or it would have had an "O" on end.

Still a crazy price.

Okay I wasn’t sure how the TR5 numbering system worked, but I did wonder why it didn’t have the ‘O’ suffix as the crate holding the original engine/box appears to have overdrive.

The selling price does seem exhorbitant, especially as it’s a ‘71 registered vehicle as opposed to age related, incomplete and more poignantly, when most of the Lots allegedly belong to someone else. If some of the items are effectively ‘stolen’ property I’m not sure if the auction can be stopped on that basis as I understand the contract of sale exists between the buyer and the seller, with the auctioneer merely acting as an agent. However if any serialised Lot could be identified as stolen property I would think the auction could be suspended on that basis subject to a criminal investigation by the police?

Kevin

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5 hours ago, boxofbits said:

Just a couple of questions about the registration. I’m confused why this is ACR 177K, though data suggests that it is an import ( but not from non EU countries I believe). So does that rule out a TR250 as am I correct in the assumption they were US market only?

Other information recorded is very sketchy and maybe not credible. This is the info which will ( or should) appear on that V5C. From how many nations within Europe would a RHD TR5 import come from? 

First reg 29/09/71 

9 Keepers

VIN CP995

Engine: CP707E

Year of manufacture: 1969

Shows as IMPORT

The Chassis and engine numbers both seem curtailed but do the prefixes stack up?

I note it’s supposed to come from St. Helier but why are the full engine/ chassis numbers not disclosed?

Kevin

Hi

Firstly, to avoid any confusion I have no personal interest in this car, just interested in the auction.

The heritage certificate that was added to the listing detailed the original destination as St Helier Jersey, prior to 1st of August 1983 any previously registered outside of the UK vehicle being registered in the UK for the first time was treated as a new vehicle to the UK and allocated with a new car registration number from the local office were the application was made, ACR was issued from the Southampton Licensing Office.

How do I know this? In 1981 for my sins,  I purchased a 1977 Ford Capri registered in the UK in March 1980 on a V plate, this car was originally registered new on the Isle of Man.

Of more interest to me was the price achieved for lot 3, an unrestored very tatty, incomplete yellow 1958 TR3, £20,000.00 with premium and VAT that’s an invoice of £23,600.00.

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To add spice to Lot 3 , the Yellow Tr3 , the previous owner on the log book, told the Administrator that it was still his (long story) , but they ignored it and continued anyway. 

It's very difficult to get justice with any of the Auction lots , as the water is so muddied by the actions of Lambkin Smith,  that it is difficult for everyone. 

Conrad.

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This whole episode yet again has a very bad smell about it. 

It just goes to show how badly the law treats the general public and how little effort the police are prepared to put into such cases.  As some have already alluded to , in years past he would certainly have had a visit from some of our local gentlemen:ph34r: but times and priorities change and defrauding ordinary honest people seems to be an acceptable fact of life.

Brian

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A number of my non TR classic car owning friends and colleagues had contacted me over the last few months  with a "heads up" on the auction of these parts, and I was able to enlighten them as to the history behind it - they were previously totally oblivious, and after they understood the situation determined not to touch the auction with a bargepole.


Maybe if the classic "media" had been made aware of the scale of the "goings on" and disputed ownership status of many parts/cars, the auction results may well have been different.


This is where the "owners club" (TR Register) could have made a difference by getting behind its member casualties and publicising the circumstances widely within the trade press, rather than individual(s) kicking up a fuss?

Tin hat on expecting some incoming flak!

Ian

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I wonder how and when the new owners are going to be made aware of this situation regarding their new purchases and just how they will feel about it when they realise what they have purchased?

Perhaps the cars are intended to be sold on but the situation will still exist with  any new purchaser. These cars will forever be in disrepute.

Edited by SuzanneH
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Correct regarding the police they are far too busy handing out speeding tickets than investigating crimes such as this. But I bet if members were to stand outside Lambkins Smiths new premises with some tastefully worded banners and stopping and advising potential customers what a ******* he is then the police would be straight onto it. With any luck the local press might turn up if tipped off as the thought of aged gents kicking off might get LS some good publicity and cause him some pain.

Andy 

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Surely the V5 is purely proof of the registered keeper and are never proof of ownership.

Tim

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4 minutes ago, Tim T said:

Surely the V5 is purely proof of the registered keeper and are never proof of ownership.

Tim

That's just where the difficulty arises the V5 is not considered as proof of  legal ownership and makes life that much more difficult for the legal owner to prove .

Bri

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“To add spice to Lot 3 , the Yellow Tr3 , the previous owner on the log book”

That’s precisely the issue! The V5C records the Registered Keeper and NOT the owner. There is nowhere in the document where you are referred to as the legal owner, even though it mentions a buyer and seller but in the same sentence simply mentions ‘or transfer’ of the vehicle.

This chap would probably claim that the vehicles and parts were either bequeathed, left to him, abandoned on his property or were there due to unpaid bills etc etc, apart from them being transferred to another company due to liquidation, making it almost impossible to reclaim them. He was obviously well aware of this and the legal loopholes he could exploit. As far as the Administrator or Auctioneer are concerned neither have got a duty to decide if any of the goods are stolen, but simply act on the instructions of their client. Even a Heritage Certificate is not a receipt of ownership. 

I don’t know whether you can obtain a certificate of ownership from a solicitor but not having looked into that I don’t know.

Far be it from me to offer advice, but in light of this what I would say is don’t advertise either your whereabouts or what you own on here.

Kevin

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2 minutes ago, brian -r said:

Andy

It is more likely plod would attempt to arrest them for causing a disturbance /obstruction.

Bri

That possibly right but it might attract press attention while they are trying to and allow people to in/out if they so wish then you should be fine. 

Been the kind of bloke I am I employed this tactic on a small scale after one of my daughters was sold an expensive item which failed right out of the box so she took it back to the shop the owner would not refund or replace claiming she had broken it so I went to the shop with her.

To cut a long story short I stood outside the shop all Saturday morning stopping potential customers and advised them of my daughters experience, lets just say business was very poor for them and despite the police attending the owner was advised that as long as I stayed on the public pavement there was nothing they could do. Within 5 mins of them leaving I had my daughters refund.

Andy

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Not all police are uncaring motorist bashing officers. 
 

they are directed on the current policing need. 
 

I know at the moment they are pulled in every direction policing COVID-19 related enforcement from illegal parties to non compliance with mask wearing. 
 

more recently they are being required to visit homes to ensure positive cases are self isolating as required by law where they are not answering the phone etc. 
 

this is a life saving action ( not big brother as some may perceive it )

 

may be the selling concerns could be addressed by trading standards ?

 

it will be interesting to see who bought the multiple item lots and if the surplus is ebay’d or if the current triumph specialist companies bought “stock”

H

Edited by Hamish
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