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Rear Hub failure imminent?


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Hello,
when I see such rust marks on a TR rear hub, I sound the alarm. Maybe exaggerated!
That is probably rust in the tapered fit.
The wave also shows traces of violence from outside.
I wouldn't drive another meter with it.

Many greetings
Ralf

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Hi,

Yes the rust stains are my concern. I have owned the car for 30yrs and, although low mileage in this time and the wheels are off regularly for servicing etc.,  I have not noticed this before. I am not qualified to say if this is an early warning or not, but I don't want to find out whilst driving the car. 

Regards

Ian

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13 hours ago, BRINDUS44 said:

I don’t think this looks good. No detectable play in the hub though. 
A new pair ordered. 
Ian

15A01AF3-5C39-474D-8FB2-B6634CE825AA.jpeg

I suspect that water has got in through the oil seal and attacked the rollers. But also what has happen to the grease? There probably isn't any? I would also suspect that the hub is not cold welded to the taper! Which it normally is! I certainly would not be driving it! I would also suspect that the outer U/J needs greasing?

Bruce. 

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Hi Ian,

could the rust be going the other way - from the brake drum to the big nut.

I've never seen rust coming from the nut (unless it is loose) - how would it get into the bearings.  I would expect to hear noisy bearings.

Remove the drum and see what is going on.

 

Roger

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2 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Ian,

could the rust be going the other way - from the brake drum to the big nut.

I've never seen rust coming from the nut (unless it is loose) - how would it get into the bearings.  I would expect to hear noisy bearings.

Remove the drum and see what is going on.

 

Roger

I agree. If the bearings are gone it will rumble while driving and you'd feel  changing resistance  whilst turning by hand.

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Hello ,
I think pictures speak louder than words.
Bearings can be completely intact. Nevertheless, the flange can loosen itself on the pin through micro movements and initially release these traces of rust. A message from the dying wheel bearing unit. Good who can read it.

Regards
Ralf

Radlagerflansch gebrochen.JPG

Radlagerzapfen gebrochen.JPG

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Hi Ralk,

wow!!  that looks very impressive.  The images are not clear enough to see where things started etc.

Is this off a Stag.  I have seen a similar one off a Stag.

 

As you say and as I pointed to in my first post - remove the drum to see what is going on. If no significant cause then go further - separate the hub.

 

Roger

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Latest;

I have removed the driveshaft and hub and, apart from the rust marks seen above, I can feel no roughness in the bearing or other signs of failure. I have to say that the hub nut came undone too easily to have been at 120lbft, but the hub is not offering to fall off the taper. The exposed end of the taper/hub inner has some brown stained grease visible. I will make a more determined effort to remove the hub  from taper at the weekend.

Regards

Ian

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15 minutes ago, BRINDUS44 said:

Latest;

I have removed the driveshaft and hub and, apart from the rust marks seen above, I can feel no roughness in the bearing or other signs of failure. I have to say that the hub nut came undone too easily to have been at 120lbft, but the hub is not offering to fall off the taper. The exposed end of the taper/hub inner has some brown stained grease visible. I will make a more determined effort to remove the hub  from taper at the weekend.

Regards

Ian

I have a puller Ian, I’m over in Corby if you wish to borrow it.

Ian

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8 minutes ago, BRINDUS44 said:

Latest;

I have removed the driveshaft and hub and, apart from the rust marks seen above, I can feel no roughness in the bearing or other signs of failure. I have to say that the hub nut came undone too easily to have been at 120lbft, but the hub is not offering to fall off the taper. The exposed end of the taper/hub inner has some brown stained grease visible. I will make a more determined effort to remove the hub  from taper at the weekend.

Regards

Ian

If the hub is in good condition it's not unusual to have to use a 20 ton press and a oxy torch warming the hub to get them to part...after which the hub isn't in good condition, a warped hub flange face being the least of the damage. The forces involved can start cracks within which has lead to the rebuilt hubs parting when in use,

Look familiar ?

1303907658_StagHubfailure.jpg.f090136a7b4760d410c807aa3dd84b52.jpg

 

these hubs are beyond the end of their lives, the only safe way is to replace with new. 

Mick Richards 

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2 hours ago, Motorsport Mickey said:

If the hub is in good condition it's not unusual to have to use a 20 ton press and a oxy torch warming the hub to get them to part...after which the hub isn't in good condition, a warped hub flange face being the least of the damage. The forces involved can start cracks within which has lead to the rebuilt hubs parting when in use,

Look familiar ?

1303907658_StagHubfailure.jpg.f090136a7b4760d410c807aa3dd84b52.jpg

 

these hubs are beyond the end of their lives, the only safe way is to replace with new. 

Mick Richards 

+1

You're very unlikely to remove the hub flange from the taper at home and there's a high risk of damaging it.

I've photographed a professional reconditioning a TR6 rear hub for a magazine article. He used an 80 tonne press, reckoned his 20 tonne press would struggle. There was a hell of bang when it came apart!

Nigel

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2 hours ago, Nigel Triumph said:

+1

You're very unlikely to remove the hub flange from the taper at home and there's a high risk of damaging it.

I've photographed a professional reconditioning a TR6 rear hub for a magazine article. He used an 80 tonne press, reckoned his 20 tonne press would struggle. There was a hell of bang when it came apart!

Nigel

Did he fit a new stub axle to it then?

Stuart.

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I have one these apart at the moment, and I feel there is real design /drawing problem with the radius where the bearing fits, there should be much more of a radius at this point, the bearing has plenty cut away on it to accomadate a larger radius on the hub.

If you had this much undercut/minimum chamfer on a crankshaft it would surely break there.

I know they are not failing that often, but engineering wise it leaves a bit to be desired.

John

IMG_E3068 (2).JPG

IMG_E3070 (2).JPG

Edited by John L
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The desogn of the hub is essentially fine as decades of use before failure confirms. However they are all getting old having been subject to repeated stresses.

The very act of disassembly generally requires considerable force.

Do not rebuild with out replacing the stub axle. This works out expensive and it is probably more cost effective to replace with new which are available from the susual suppliers. Do not opt for a rebuilt one unless the supplier confirs the stub axle has been replaced.

New ones aren't cheap but given the catastrophic consequences of one shearing it is not an area to save on.

If the shaft is worn it is probably more cost effective to go for a CV jointed replacement which come with new hubs.

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7 hours ago, stuart said:

Did he fit a new stub axle to it then?

Stuart.

No, he reused the original stub axle with new Timken bearings. It's now fitted to my TR6 and I'm getting worried. Think I will fit a pair of Classic Driving Development replacement hubs... Very soon.

 Nigel

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12 hours ago, Nigel Triumph said:

No, he reused the original stub axle with new Timken bearings. It's now fitted to my TR6 and I'm getting worried. Think I will fit a pair of Classic Driving Development replacement hubs... Very soon.

 Nigel

TBH if you want better hubs fit the Quaife ones from Dennis Vessey and yes as he re-used the stub I would be changing it before going any further!

Stuart.

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