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condensor outside the distributor, experiments with Powerspark


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Hi,

I'm just doing some experiments with the 25D4 distributor (contact breaker VS Powerspark).

On my classic contact braker the condenser failed currently - and the new nameless ones have no good reputation.

So I ask myself why not to use new quality one from Bosch? But this is only outside the distributor possible, because it's to big to fit inside.

From terminal 1 (switch) on the distributor direct to earth? Like on other Not-Lucas distributors, for exaple Bosch?

Why not? Did anyone do that?

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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  • Z320 changed the title to condensor outside the distributor, experiments with Powerspark

Yes that is correct Marco - wired so it is in parallel with the points contacts.  You can buy condensers  for that - I think the rally/race people used them.

https://www.ah-racing.co.uk/webshop/cortina-mk1-and-lotus/electrics/ignition-condensor/

It will work just the same as the internal one, it just doesn't look as neat. 

If you want a good-quality original type to fit internally, the Distributor Doctor can supply one.  

Edited by RobH
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Hi Rob,

thank you for that, your answer makes me feeling better.

What I want to do is a quick repair for the weekend with a standard 22 uF Bosch condenser (10€, 30 mm long) 

and perhaps to have a closer look on my not relaiable Powerspark (I guess I know why...)

Finally, if possible, I want to use the Powerspark.

Ciao, Marco

Edited by Z320
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Powerspark I believe is virtually the same as Accuspark (one came from the other)  I have had an Accuspark hall effect conversion in my 25D distributor since 2013, it has performed perfectly. I do carry a spare in the glove box in case it fails, but have never needed it. (easier to change than to retrofit points etc)

Bob.

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Marco,

How did the condensor fail?     They can do so in two ways; they just stop operating as a condensor, or they conduct electricity across them, shortcircuiting the points.

The seccond is obviously disabling.

The first is as if there was no condensor, and the points will go on working, just with a bigger arc, that erodes them more quickly.    But not fast - without, they will last 1000 miles or so.   

John

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Hi John,

thank you for your question to double-check the issue.

It is the second, the car starts to spluttering on higher revs after driving an hour or so, this gets worse and worse down to lower speed,

re-start after waiting is possible for minutes, than the problems are there again. Restart when fully cold is not problem for an hour again....

Checked and changed everything - but not the condenser, so the problem is still there.

Ciao, Marco

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1 hour ago, Lebro said:

Powerspark I believe is virtually the same as Accuspark (one came from the other)  I have had an Accuspark hall effect conversion in my 25D distributor since 2013, it has performed perfectly. I do carry a spare in the glove box in case it fails, but have never needed it. (easier to change than to retrofit points etc)

Bob.

Hi Bob,

please could you be kind and make / post a photo of your ditributor / Accuspark with the cap off?

Thanks in advance.

Marco

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You can check a condenser with a multimeter.     Use a resistance setting, connect the probes across it.    If it's working, you'll see a resistance build up over several seconds.     If its failed in mode 1, 'no continuity', in mode 2 (conducting, short circuiting) a fixed low resistance .

John

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I thought this was an interesting tip for testing and road-side emergencies. Connect a known good condenser to an alligator clip attached to ground, and attach the condenser lead to the points side of the coil. Not pretty but it would get you home.

https://www.classicmgclub.com/single-post/2015/10/13/Doc-Browns-Flux-Capacitor

image.png.2324a3246e16f8d1ef08c8833915c151.png

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57 minutes ago, Andy303 said:

Not pretty but it would get you home

But as John has already pointed out above Andy, the car will run without a condenser for some considerable time before the points quit.  All you really need to do to get home is remove the faulty one. 

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Well this is what I did with the Bosch condenser, perhaps I change the bolted end to a connector end

P1180678-b.JPG.62b91268133299ed3ca56ad31802fa8e.JPG   P1180680-b.JPG.03d371d80d11cdaf0c994983208d4cbd.JPG

the result about my closer look on my Powerspark (not in use this year) is: I cannot find any reason why it sometimes fails for seconds - minutes - an hour

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I had condenser problems on my 3A for years . Finally I fitted a racing one for a mini minor and it  cured all the problems. It was held on to the block by one of the fixings for the coil.  This was years ago. Distributor Doctor,  Martin Jay, carried out an experiment with a range of different manufacturers and found that most had a short length of foill. The racing one cost £33.00 but it was worth it.  We are do find that new parts are faulty. 

Good luck

Richard & B.

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Hi Marco

Just for info, I fitted the coil on my car on the left wheel arch where it is cooler. I have a spare also near the left side horn so I only need to swap wires from one to the other in an emergency. I remember seeing that on a rally car some time back. I used to have one of the larger original coils fitted to the side of the engine but I think the heat from the engine killed it. I like your idea of the condenser outside the distributor where it is easier to get at. I have a collection of old condensers but no idea which, if any, work so will get the multimeter out and check them as John has posted.

Keith

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12 hours ago, keith1948 said:

I have a collection of old condensers but no idea which, if any, work so will get the multimeter out and check them as John has posted.

Keith

Hi Keith,

there is a simple test for old condensors (capacitors). One at a time throw them as far down the garden as possible.

All those that 'boomerang' around and fit themselves to your car keep for a rainy day (but don't trust them).

The rest can stay where they land.    

By doing this if you end up with no spare then Contact Martin J for a known good one.

 

Roger

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46 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Keith,

there is a simple test for old condensors (capacitors). One at a time throw them as far down the garden as possible.

All those that 'boomerang' around and fit themselves to your car keep for a rainy day (but don't trust them).

The rest can stay where they land.    

By doing this if you end up with no spare then Contact Martin J for a known good one.

 

Roger

Hi Roger

If I did that might they 'seed' themselves in the garden and grow some more?!

Take care

Keith

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I know about the suggestion to move the ignition coil away from the engine,

but I had never any problem with any ignition coil.

And look at the very relaiable Mazda MX5.

Guess where ignition coils are on this car?

Edited by Z320
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If you go for an alternative condenser, keep the lead lengths as short as possible. Adding a foot or two of wire reduces the effectiveness in arc suppression considerably. I was surprised that it makes as much difference as it does keeping the lead lengths short.  A good type of capacitor that can be soldered inside a gutted Lucas shell is a modern high voltage ceramic type.  I suggested a Kemet capacitor in this MG forum thread (link below). Now unfortunately, the Kemet capacitor is now obsolete and getting hard to find, but there is another by Murata, part number  RDER73A224MUE1H03A that should work well too although I have not tested that one specifically. If you wade through the pages on the MG forum you will see the testing I did. The Kemet capacitor has been in use in a great many cars now. The hardest part of doing the retrofit is gutting the old case. I used a small flat bladed screwdriver and only stabbed myself once on the first one I did. https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-gt-forum.1/condenser-retrofit-capacitor.3580196/   As an aside, a multimeter with a capacitor function will not tell you if the capacitor will function properly under high voltage and current conditions. A real condenser checker thumps the condenser hard with both high voltage and high current. Without a condenser checker the only really good way to know is to substitute with a known good condenser.  For fun here is an article I wrote on the function of the condenser. Fred   

Condenser Action and More Rev 1.pdf

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