Cooling..

[Jctr6EFI72]

Plenty of questions on this subject in the forum but always specific to each car...

 

my car : EFI (ltronic), fast road amshaft, lightened flywheel, no mechanic fan but kenlowe in front of radiator And oil radiator

i noticed that the fan start always very often even in winter. In summer same but even at 30 deg the water temperature remains at the middle. The electric fan is working at iddle, 1 and 2 gear, 

today, 30deg i was blocked in trafficjam and after 20 min i noticed that the temp was slowly but constantly increasing. I turned off the engine at 3/4 of the jauge and opened the hood...everything ok, no excessive hot

 

i also noticed after 1500 miles that the coolant bottle was full,(it was 1/2) at the begining

 

so my question, is there anything to check before improving? (Replacing radiator and fan)

Edited September 4, 2020 by Jctr6EFI72

[Mike C]

Was the fan running when the gauge moved up to 3/4 hot? If the coolant bottle was 1/2 full cold and full when the engine was hot , that's pretty normal coolant expansion.

[Jctr6EFI72]

Yes the fan was non stop running.

actually the bottle became full little by little and it took 1500 miles. But yesterday before leaving i had transfered 1/2 bottle in the radiator plus checked that it was full

[Waldi]

What is the real CW temperature, at top of engine? 
What is the on and off temperature of the sensor and where is it located?

Waldi

[Mike C]

I do a lot of radiator diagnostic work with a infra red thermometer, the absolute temperatures may not be correct, but there should be a temperature difference between the top and bottom radiator hoses when the engine is overheated and idling. If not there's a water circulation or radiator problem.

If your coolant overflow bottle is filling itself you might  have a blown head gasket.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Mike C

[Tim D.]

Equally if the bottle is filling up your radiator cap might be incorrect or malfunctioning. Thereby letting coolant out when hot but not letting it back in when cold. This could also be linked to your overheating as you will have lost coolant from the radiator. 

Tim

[Yarm 783]

I don’t think your problems are unusual, I have them in wet and windy Preston, so at 30 degrees I’m not surprised.  To solve my heating issue I eventually went to a new core in the rad (£100) and did a thorough engine flush, the crud that I got out of the drain plug next to the starter motor was shocking. In fact when I first took out the drain plug, nothing came out, so some poking around was required the get the thick sludge out. I refilled with 4Life coolant, I see two benefits here 1) better heat transfer and 2) better rust inhibit (though these comments usually fire people up for some reason).  All of that has worked for me, I hope it is helpful and good luck.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Yarm 783

[Jctr6EFI72]

Thanks for these advices.... confirm my analysis (i don t suspect head gasket yet , I checked,no bubbles at any time)

i will also « invest » in a red thermometer, could be instructive

[Nigel Triumph]

An IR thermometer is very helpful. When my TR6 was showing about 70% across the temp gauge scale, the actual temp measured on the thermostat housing was 84C, quite acceptable. Just because the dashboard temp gauge reads high doesn't automatically mean there's a serious problem.

Sludge in the block's water passages is a real problem at the back of the engine, furthest from the water pump. It can't be properly cleared through the drain hole. If you take the cylinder head off, have a good poke around the water jacket around cylinders 5 & 6 with a small screwdriver to clear the muck.

I've used 4Life coolant for years, works well and does seem to inhibit corrosion very effectively.

Nigel

[TRsixchris]

4 hours ago, Yarm 783 said:

I don’t think your problems are unusual, I have them in wet and windy Preston, so at 30 degrees I’m not surprised.  To solve my heating issue I eventually went to a new core in the rad (£100) and did a thorough engine flush, the crud that I got out of the drain plug next to the starter motor was shocking. In fact when I first took out the drain plug, nothing came out, so some poking around was required the get the thick sludge out. I refilled with 4Life coolant, I see two benefits here 1) better heat transfer and 2) better rust inhibit (though these comments usually fire people up for some reason).  All of that has worked for me, I hope it is helpful and good luck.

I think the reason that people get fired up by the benefits listed is that 1) better heat transfer is simply not true. Or a least when compared to water. Propylene glycol based waterless coolants have a lower specific heat rating than water. 

The product may have other redeeming properties but even the manufacturer does not claim better heat transfer than water. They only claim:

Exceptional heat transfer capability 

Water has an even more exceptional heat transfer capability 

Chris

Edited September 5, 2020 by TRsixchris

[Mike C]

Somethings wrong with your cooling, 30 deg C is not a really hot ambient temperature. You've probably checked this, but are you sure your fan is turning the right way?

[Waldi]

I agree with Mike; when I drove my car with 30C the e-fan only came in in very slow traffic, for short periods.

Waldi

[Nigel Triumph]

2 hours ago, TRsixchris said:

I think the reason that people get fired up by the benefits listed is that 1) better heat transfer is simply not true. Or a least when compared to water. Propylene glycol based waterless coolants have a lower specific heat rating than water. 

The product may have other redeeming properties but even the manufacturer does not claim better heat transfer than water. They only claim:

Exceptional heat transfer capability 

Water has an even more exceptional heat transfer capability 

Chris

44Life isn't a waterless coolant. It's a ready to use glycol/water based coolant formulated to maintain corrosion protection far longer than traditional blue glycol antifreeze.

Nigel

[TRsixchris]

Hi Fair enough on the waterless point.

I am sure that 4life is an excellent product with many useful properties, long life, high boiling point, good anti freeze and anti corrosion protection etc, but my only point is that it unlikely to offer better heat transfer than pure water.

The manufacturer does not claim that it is better than water. I have no argument to the claim that it has excellent heat transfer properties just that it is not better than water.

Chris

Edited September 5, 2020 by TRsixchris

[Nigel Triumph]

4 hours ago, TRsixchris said:

Hi Fair enough on the waterless point.

I am sure that 4life is an excellent product with many useful properties, long life, high boiling point, good anti freeze and anti corrosion protection etc, but my only point is that it unlikely to offer better heat transfer than pure water.

The manufacturer does not claim that it is better than water. I have no argument to the claim that it has excellent heat transfer properties just that it is not better than water.

Chris

Each to their own when it comes to antifreeze. But as we all know, pure water is not a practical option.

Nigel

[Jctr6EFI72]

7 hours ago, Waldi said:

I agree with Mike; when I drove my car with 30C the e-fan only came in in very slow traffic, for short periods.

Waldi

Interesting point...mine is on full time in slow trafic. That confirms an issue to solve

are you running also without the mechanical fan ?

Edited September 5, 2020 by Jctr6EFI72

[Z320]

Allow me to tell you what I think about the overflow bottle and the hole story about.

A lot of classic car don't have one, also the TR2, TR3 and TR4 don't have one.

This works lovely as long as you don't overfill the rad, there has to be about 1 liter of air in to be compressed by the expanding coolant.

The air is no problem at all for the car's water pump, it is a MONSTER and keeps the air in the flow.

You can not compare a car's cooling system with your tiny house heating system at all.

BUT

people did not get weak telling the story "you have to bleed the system" and "you have to get the air out".

And constantly overfilled the rad and complained about the loss of coolant. And this sadly is still the case...

In my opinion this is why the Triumph engineers had to add the overflow bottle ( not an expansion bottle) and all the story about to get rid of this customers complaints with the TR4A.

With coolant stored in there all the time, mixed with the overflow, and sucked back in the engine you always get fresh oxygen in your cast iron engine.

My 4A came without overflow bottle, this worked very well. 

I added one but it is always dry because I fill the rad (not too much) due to the TR 4 manual.

I'm very pleased this way.

Ciao, Marco

Edited September 6, 2020 by Z320

[Waldi]

12 hours ago, Jctr6EFI72 said:

are you running also without the mechanical fan ?

No, just a Revotec puller fan, controlled by a switch in the return pipe.

Waldi

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Waldi said:

No, just a Revotec puller fan, controlled by a switch in the return pipe.

Waldi

Same here. It does come on (intermittently) when sitting in traffic but ambient temp doesn't make much of a difference there (I live in Sydney, so temp varies 15-30C. about). I have had some nerdy fun by fitting a Seafire RATOG switch to select between bottom hose, top hose, both, or "manual on", but I doubt that has had any effect on cooling! I did have the radiator re-cored 30yrs ago, and have ensured plenty of inhibitor in the coolant ever since. That's probably more relevant.

John

[Yarm 783]

On 9/5/2020 at 11:06 AM, TRsixchris said:

I think the reason that people get fired up by the benefits listed is that 1) better heat transfer is simply not true. Or a least when compared to water. Propylene glycol based waterless coolants have a lower specific heat rating than water. 

The product may have other redeeming properties but even the manufacturer does not claim better heat transfer than water. They only claim:

Exceptional heat transfer capability 

Water has an even more exceptional heat transfer capability 

Chris

Chris

Proved my point I guess. I'm not a brand manager for 4Life, but it isn't waterless as you suggest. My comments are based upon my own experience. but thanks for not putting me straight.