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Front parking lights as daytime running lights


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Hi everyone,

I am looking at upgrading the lighting on my ‘73 TR6 and one of my ideas was to put nice bright LED bulbs in the front parking/side light positions. I would like these to come on as daytime running lights, so basically when the ignition is on.

Of course I could just put the switch to the first position but this puts the rear lights on as well and runs the risk of staying on and flattening the battery when I forget to switch it off.

Can anyone explain to an electrical novice if this can be done, and if so how please.

Thanks

Rob

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Yes it can be done but it isn't simply the technical thing, there is also legality to consider.   'Nice bright' LEDs visible in daylight will be too bright to have on at night because of uncontrolled dazzle, so they need to be turned off when the normal lighting is on to comply with legislation. That means you would need two sets of front lamps - the bright daylight ones and the normal dimmer ones.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights/daytime-running-lights

That might be difficult to arrange in the existing lamp housings.  You might do it by moving the side-lights to within the headlights using the appropriate bowls and reflectors though. 

 

 

 

 

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Im really not keen on this new idea of daytime front lights but no rears, in reduced visibility people tend to think that they can rely on the fronts which isnt good. Your better off with the Volvo idea of having the lights come on all the time and gfo out when you switch the ignition off with the light switch in the on position.

Stuart

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37 minutes ago, stuart said:

Im really not keen on this new idea of daytime front lights but no rears, in reduced visibility people tend to think that they can rely on the fronts which isnt good. Your better off with the Volvo idea of having the lights come on all the time and gfo out when you switch the ignition off with the light switch in the on position.

Stuart

Hi Stuart, I know what you mean. I’d like to think I’m not one of those people but after reading the link from RobH I realise that daytime running lights are a bit more complicated than I thought anyway.

I think I’ll go back to the idea off fitting LED bulbs in the headlights and rear lights and putting the headlights on dipped all the time.

Rob Y

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2 hours ago, Rob Y said:

Hi everyone,

I am looking at upgrading the lighting on my ‘73 TR6 and one of my ideas was to put nice bright LED bulbs in the front parking/side light positions. I would like these to come on as daytime running lights, so basically when the ignition is on.

Of course I could just put the switch to the first position but this puts the rear lights on as well and runs the risk of staying on and flattening the battery when I forget to switch it off.

Can anyone explain to an electrical novice if this can be done, and if so how please.

Thanks

Rob

Hi Rob, I have just done this to my TR6. Basically the two front sidelights had bulbs (very dim) and come on with the first switch position of the light switch. I wanted to have them on all the time a bit like modern cars, for additionally safety during dim daylight. What I didn't want is the rear lights to come on during daylight, as people think you maybe braking.

I upgraded to LED`s in the two front parking lights and added two diodes in the feed to these lights. This means that when the engine is running the front parking lights are on, and the rear lights are off,. in position 2 the parking lights are on and the rear lights as well as dipped beam as well as main beam if stalk switch is energised. When ignition is switched off all lights are off as normal.

Can't see how this is any different or unsafer than a modern car, unless I've missed something, please let me know?

Regards, Colin.

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You have missed the fact that on a modern car the bright daylight running lamps are switched off at night Colin as required by legislation. Your 'upgraded' LED sidelamps will remain on. If they are very bright they may cause dazzle because there is no controlled beam from them unlike a headlamp. 

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I just installed these LED strip lights inside the headlight trim ring.

hooked up to the white wire at the output of the fuse box. On when key is on, off when not.

About $10.00 CAD plus wire.

i can provide a link and more info if interested- from China of course.

Graham

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Edited by Graham J
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14 hours ago, RobH said:

You have missed the fact that on a modern car the bright daylight running lamps are switched off at night Colin as required by legislation. Your 'upgraded' LED sidelamps will remain on. If they are very bright they may cause dazzle because there is no controlled beam from them unlike a headlamp. 

Ah OK thanks Rob, I didn't realise that modern car running lights switch off at night. So are they controlled automatically by an LDR or switch off when you purposely turn on the headlights?

The LED`s fitted are 4W "bright cool white", 4000K, 200 Lumen, dont know how this compares with the 12V bulb, or whether it would dazzle oncommers, what do you think.

If you think they would dazzle at night, guess I could turn them off via the second switch position (headlight switch), or voltage/ resistor limit current to reduce lumens.

Regards, Colin.

  

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200 lumens is about the same as the output from a 25W incandescent bulb. Considering the standard sidelight is only 5 watts, that is perhaps a bit bright. Why not stand in front of the car at night to judge how it looks to an on-coming vehicle?  

(It would be easy to turn them off when the headlights are on - just power them through normally-closed contacts of a relay, which is switched on with the headlights.)

Edited by RobH
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My daily driver DRLs remain on but dim when the headlights are on and also when the respective trafficator is flashing on that side.  Incidentally the rear lights are permanently on too. 

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Car builders have this. 

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/auto-switching-led-running-lights-night-lights

That automatically switch. 

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So Colin and RobH,

It sounds as if you have achieved what I was thinking. Colin, how/where do I install the diodes that you mention please?.....remember I am no electrician!

RobH how do you install the relay to switch off the side lights when the headlights are on please?

I’m still considering LED headlight bulbs, but this seems to open another can of worms!

cheers Rob Y

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13 hours ago, Rob Y said:

So Colin and RobH,

It sounds as if you have achieved what I was thinking. Colin, how/where do I install the diodes that you mention please?.....remember I am no electrician!

RobH how do you install the relay to switch off the side lights when the headlights are on please?

I’m still considering LED headlight bulbs, but this seems to open another can of worms!

cheers Rob Y

Hi Rob Y, all TR`s seem to be slightly wired slightly differently due to PO`s adding circuits and other accessories. What I did is as follows:

Firstly:

Ascertain how your car is actually wired and how the lights operate. On mine, in the ignition position and when running, no lights are on except the brake lights when the foot brake is pressed. Light position 1 operated the front sidelights the rear tail lights as well as the number plate lights. In switch position 2, all was the same except the headlights came on. The main beam would come on in either position 1 or 2 except if the light switch was off. So, all of the positive 12V feed from the light switch to front parking lights, rear tail lights and number plate came from original fuse box (No 4 fuse at the bottom) via Red/Green IN and Red OUT.

I then traced the wiring to the two front parking lights in my case there was a separate wire (Red), from No 4 Fuse OUT which only went to the two parking lights only. This ran along the L.H.S. of the engine compartment down under the radiator cowl and then spliced across the front to the offside parking light. Another Red wire from No 4 fuse OUT went rearwards presumably to the rear tail and number plate light. I then knew exactly how it was wired.

 My Modification:

I wanted to have the front marker lights on all the time when the engine is running as well as switch position 1 and 2. My fuse box had the 12V ignition feed (from key ignition switch) in position No 3 three down from the top. I added an extra wire via a series diode from this fuse OUT and spliced it into the red feed to the parking lights. I then added another series diode from fuse No 4 OUT into the existing wire to the parking lights. This basically forms an electrical “OR gate” i.e. either supply feed will energise lights. The purpose or the diodes is to isolate each feed from one another. If you don`t, and light switch is switched on the engine will continue to run when you remove the ignition keys removed…………very scary !!

I used a 1N5404 (400V, 3A) diode probably overkill for LED`s but had them available. I don’t have a circuit diagram but could sketch one out if you are still keen to proceed. I`ll leave Rob H to answer your other question.

Anyways, best ascertain and fully understand your wiring and circuitry first. Mine wasn’t as per the brown book?

Regards, Colin.

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1 hour ago, c.hydes said:

The purpose or the diodes is to isolate each feed from one another. If you don`t, and light switch is switched on the engine will continue to run when you remove the ignition keys removed…………very scary !!

That sounds like my experiences of electrical improv :o

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To use the front sidelights as bright daylight running lamps and if you are concerned about your car passing the MoT,  it is probably necessary for the front sidelights to act normally as well.  i.e.  They should come on at normal brilliance when you have just the sidelights switched on and with the ignition off, to act as parking lamps. That adds a bit of a complication as you will need a dimmer-resistor as well as a couple of diodes. 

This circuit will do that provided the led bulbs are of a type which can be dimmed by reducing the voltage. The actual value for the resistor may require a bit of experimentation as it will depend on the characteristics of the particular bulbs. 100 Ohms is just a starting point based on experiment with bulbs I have:

runlight.jpg.625c91384f9c17d570a02124c1ec2e3e.jpg

 

At this point you may be thinking that is a bit complicated and it would be easier to use separate running lights either fed from the device Peter linked to above,  or using this to turn them off when the headlights are on:

rl2.jpg.eb3ef2c2b71bbfcaa79327ab551004e6.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by RobH
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Thanks everybody.

I really wasn’t expecting it to be so complicated but I’m glad I asked. Even if for some this is straightforward, with my level of electrical know how this is much too complicated for me. You did describe exactly what I was trying to do and it’s made me realise that I should just do what I did when I had a motorbike to make sure I was more visible and just put my dipped headlights on all the time.

Then the question is to fit relays (to preserve the switch) and keep the existing halogen bulbs or fit LED’s. From what I have seen there are a couple of good suppliers of these (if not cheap), they sound like they work and would pass the mot, so good cut off, beam pattern etc. And they supply “warm white” ones too so as not to look out of place. Also fit LED rear/brake lights at the same time. Either way I’d just have to get into the habit of switching them off when I turn the engine off.

I think there is a question of legality but it seems highly unlikely to be an issue if it passes an mot and is accepted by the insurance company.

So, since fitting relays etc could be beyond my meagre electrical ability, it looks like the LED route for me.

Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions.

 

Rob Y

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On 9/3/2020 at 9:24 AM, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

I used these 

https://m.tomtop.com/p-k13811.html

Peter W

Hi Peter,

Could you give some details about how you fitted this please. I assume you need one for each light, is that right? Do you have any photos of the installation?

Did you change your parking lights to LED and use this or new running lights.

I’m interested in this but really need a bit of an idiots guide when it comes to electrical installations.

Cheers,

Rob Y

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I used these 

https://m.tomtop.com/p-k13811.html

Peter W
 

 

My car is a TR 3A and I have side lamps in the headlamps   The orig side lamps have LED Bulbs that are white as drl and orange when flashers  

yes I used one for each lamp  

the kit included wiring instructions. I added a fused ignition controlled feeder as the instructions suggested. 
 

the dimming feature was not very noticeable

Peter W 

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There is absolutely no need to use one for each lamp.  The units can supply 5A which is more than enough for both LED lamps, that is 60 watts ! 

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  • 2 years later...
On 9/3/2020 at 2:31 PM, RobH said:

To use the front sidelights as bright daylight running lamps and if you are concerned about your car passing the MoT,  it is probably necessary for the front sidelights to act normally as well.  i.e.  They should come on at normal brilliance when you have just the sidelights switched on and with the ignition off, to act as parking lamps. That adds a bit of a complication as you will need a dimmer-resistor as well as a couple of diodes. 

This circuit will do that provided the led bulbs are of a type which can be dimmed by reducing the voltage. The actual value for the resistor may require a bit of experimentation as it will depend on the characteristics of the particular bulbs. 100 Ohms is just a starting point based on experiment with bulbs I have:

runlight.jpg.625c91384f9c17d570a02124c1ec2e3e.jpg

 

At this point you may be thinking that is a bit complicated and it would be easier to use separate running lights either fed from the device Peter linked to above,  or using this to turn them off when the headlights are on:

rl2.jpg.eb3ef2c2b71bbfcaa79327ab551004e6.jpg

 

 

 

 

As I line up a number of 'sensible improvements' for the 6 when I get it back from the workshop, I wondered if anyone has actually implemented either of Rob's solutions for achieving daylight running lights.

In relation to the first solution, has anyone identified what value resister works best and with which specific LEDs?

In relation to the second solution, has anyone mounted additional 'running lights' in a 6 and if so how / where?

I suppose the alternative would be just to run on dipped headlamps (with rears illuminated) and try to remember to switch them off (perhaps aided by a normally closed relay which activates a buzzer when the ignition is switched off like a modern car -  although nothing is simple!).

Many thanks

Miles

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for daylight running - I just run on sidelights - each fitted with LED bulbs, including those I added into the headlamp bowls < here > on Katie ..which are much more noticeable than the bullet sidelights on the front wings.  

I habitually look back at the car when I park it, to ensure I've not left my wallet or camera on the bonnet, or something just as daft, and as a result I've not yet left the lights on for more than a minute or two.  Should I do so - then it's not such a disaster because added all together the LED bulbs in the side light circuit draw no more power than a single 16w filament sidelamp bulb anyway. 

I follow the KISS  philosophy of prolonged reliability. 

Pete. 

 

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