Brian Eldred Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Morning all! My TR2's original engine TS6862E doesn't have a crankcase snorkel breather, just a blanking plug. It seems the only breathing is through the filler cap. Is that right? Thanks, Brian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 It should have a snorkel. Peter W PS The car looks like the horns are on the wrong way. ie left is on the right and right is on the left Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Could it be a TR4 block ? Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roger murray-evans Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Brian, I would have thought to 'breath' there has to be an 'out' as well as an 'in'. I have a what I presume is a later, it having the screws for cam bearings, Vanguard engine, also without the tube type breather, but with a thick 'washer' pressed into the block breather hole. It has an about 3/8" hole in the centre, which presumably provides the breathing. I've not seen/heard of this feature previously. Roger M-E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) Snorkel used on TR2/3/4, but deleted on TR4A and fumes from rocker cover then dumped into the carburettors or the inlet manifold. Some breathing is necessary to avoid pressurising the crankcase etc. Further investigation required, I suggest. A 3/8" hole that low down and not fitted with a snorkel is likely to result in a TR, driven in a spirited fashion, sloshing its oil over the road. The snorkel was fitted to TRs for this very reason. Ian Cornish Edited August 30, 2020 by ianc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andy303 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 The snorkel or draft tube is there to use the vacuum generated under the car while moving to extract crankcase fumes and relieve pressure. The breather is incorporated into the oil filler cap and the wire gauze in the cap provides some filtration for the make-up air being drawn into the engine. The April, 1955 Autocar article entitled A Triumph of Development describes and illustrates the tube which was an important part of the testing and development of the TR2 engine for high speed work. I assume it would have been present on all TR2s. Without it there would be copius oil leaks due to crankcase pressurization. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 If it is a TS block it should have the breather pipe, so could it be that it is a later block that has had the engine number altered to fit the documents for the car, or could it be a TS block that has at some time been fitted into a 4a and had the hole blanked off, or simply that a PO lost the tube and blanked off the hole. Whatever the reason, unless you have the later closed circuit breathing system fitted, you will need to find and fit the snorkel. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Eldred Posted September 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Here are images of the blanking plug and the engine number. According to the PO, the car has been off the road since 1973, so I can't imagine the engine has been elsewhere. So it's a mystery. I guess I need to source one, any ideas? There's one on eBay, but £60 seems a bit steep. Also I gather removing the plug will be tricky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lebro Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Engine No. looks genuine enough, strange it should have the blanking plug. Maybe a previous owner got rid of the snorkel because they do tend to drip a little oil. Bob. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Looks like that blanking plug has been added later as factory fitted are in a lot further, you can see the lip of the plug there, should come out reasonably easy then. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamish Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 I think from memory 28mm copper plumbing pipe fits with a little sealer I’m sure something could be fabricated to suit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ianc Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Perhaps one of the usual suppliers has some old parts available? Ian Cornish Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilesA Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Got mine from the TR Shop in Chiswick. Just noticed one on eBay now at £50... Miles Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rcreweread Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Brian - what about this from a forumite ( I think) on ebay: cheaper than £60 and at £50 , that seems to be the lower end of the going rate https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR3-TR4-Crankcase-Breather-Draft-Tube-and-Bracket/143713985336?hash=item2176056338:g:f~wAAOSwKyxfTm2V Cheers Rich Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drewmotty Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 PM sent to Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PhilipB Posted September 2, 2020 Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 Brain PM sent Regards Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Eldred Posted September 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2020 Thanks for advice all as always. Deal done with Drewmotty! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Eldred Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Sorry to resurrect this post, but I've finally got around to fitting the snorkel. Or I will do when I can get the blanking plug out. I've removed the fuel pump to gain access from above. I found a tip from Roger where he drilled a hole in the plug and used a wood screw to pull it out. I've tried this but a 65mm screw went all the way in without hitting anything. I then tried a short screw with a largish head and a pry bar behind it, but it wouldn't budge even after hitting the bar with a club hammer (though not much room down there!) The plug seems to be made of fairly heavy gauge steel. Does anyone else have any tips please? Thanks, Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Brian Eldred said: Sorry to resurrect this post, but I've finally got around to fitting the snorkel. Or I will do when I can get the blanking plug out. I've removed the fuel pump to gain access from above. I found a tip from Roger where he drilled a hole in the plug and used a wood screw to pull it out. I've tried this but a 65mm screw went all the way in without hitting anything. I then tried a short screw with a largish head and a pry bar behind it, but it wouldn't budge even after hitting the bar with a club hammer (though not much room down there!) The plug seems to be made of fairly heavy gauge steel. Does anyone else have any tips please? Thanks, Brian Dremel grinder the inside edge of the plug to try and collapse it in the hole. Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ian Vincent Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Can you tap it and insert a bolt with a piece of angle iron that you drill a couple of holes at each end to provide you with a lever to screw it out. Rgds Ian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Eldred Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 17 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Dremel grinder the inside edge of the plug to try and collapse it in the hole. Peter W Peter, if you look at the picture of the plug it's flush with the block: it looks to have been inserted the wrong way round, so can't access the lip. Also it seems to be much heavier steel than a normal core plug so I don't think a Dremmel would get very far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Eldred Posted February 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 17 hours ago, Ian Vincent said: Can you tap it and insert a bolt with a piece of angle iron that you drill a couple of holes at each end to provide you with a lever to screw it out. Rgds Ian Ian, problem is getting a drill in square. I have a right angled drill but even with a 3.5 mm bit it was very tight and had to go in at an angle I've found quite a few more posts on the subject - one mentioned screwing in a one inch bolt, but on mine the plug flange is on the inside so not possible. Someone else mention a core pug extractor, but I can't find such a thing for sale. I'm reluctant to start opening up the hole to get a chisel or screwdriver in, because a) it might still not come out, and then I'm jiggered and b) the risk of getting swarf in the sump, though I guess I could drain the oil and drop the sump. Currently the engine has no breathing at all apart from the rocker cover cap. There was oil in the bellhousing when I removed the gearbox, even though the car has never run on the road since rebuild many years ago. So I have to do something. I'm toying with the idea of fitting an electric fuel pump and venting through the mechanical fuel pump hole. Maybe I could make an adaptor and fit the snorkel there? I went down that route on my 4a, except with a catch tank, and it works fine except when the catch tank filters get blocked - but that's another story . But the TR2 has all the original steel fuel pipework so I'm reluctant to disturb it. Head scratching continues..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 I would still say that drilling, even at an angle is still your best bet. It looks from the photo as if it is bowed in (concave), so i would try to get the drill in towards the bottom and make it big enough to get a decent bar in to prise it out using a block between the pry bar and the cylinder block. Alternatively if you have a mig, I would clean the paint off and weld a bolt to it by the head, then you can spin a nut on and prise against that. Ralph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
iain Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 If you drill thru, where does the swarf go? Iain Quote Link to post Share on other sites
roy53 Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 A hole in the centre and then expand a raw bolt too lever it out . even tap it in to break any sealant which may have been used. Saying that can it not be tapped right through and retrieved from the sump. Not checked if possible though . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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