Setting panel gaps; Engine/box in or out?

[PodOne]

Hi all

Up to now all the work on the tub and panels has been done without the weight of the engine/box in situ. When everything is fitted up on the chassis /wheels it all lines up well after hours of welding, hammering and adjustment.

Coming up to the point where it will soon be time to get everything painted but before I do I'm concerned that the increased weight with the engine/box in situ may potentially alter everything. My thoughts are that it might alter things slightly but if I've done things well any changes should be minimal and be adjusted out. However there seems to be two schools of thought around rebuilding a body either do as I have done or fit the engine/box first.

So should I fit the engine/box first and check just to be sure? Or crack on as I planned?

I've not rebuilt the engine yet so it will be coming back out.

Thanks

Andy

[Motorsport Mickey]

Only experienced body restorers can advise this, they'll have done it both ways Stuart ...where are you ? I'd have thought for access alone there's much of the restoration done without the engine and gearbox in, new floors, inner wings and wheel arches etc.

Mick Richards 

[stuart]

As long as your chassis is good and youve been using it as the jig to repair the shell then it wont in my experience make much difference, if it does your chassis isnt as good as you thought.

Stuart.

[Rob Salisbury]

Hi Andy,  from very recent experience even a brand new CTM chassis will flex depending on what weight is applied and what points you use to jack the thing up so modern day perfect gaps are going to be a bit of a myth, so I would certainly say get as much of the running gear loaded before setting the door and wing gaps, without paint go for gaps that look too large,  you may have already found this but  the current generation of outer sill panels need a lot of work to sit closely with the bottoms of the wings.   

[mtrehy]

I've done both. Won't make much odds. Most of the adjustment is done at the back with the front located.

[PodOne]

Thanks all

As Stuart says I suspect it will depend on how good the chassis is which I've repaired in the usual places, beefed up and used as the jig throughout. Fitted as it is the gaps with no paint are 6mm at the A posts, 5mm at B posts and 4mm every where else with 4mm packing at the rear chassis legs.

As Rob says the outer sills were a real pain to fit to  bottoms of the wings something like needed a drop of lead here and there.

Think I'll take a punt and follow Stuarts advice if it goes pear shaped then its a new chassis time!

Andy

[Waldi]

Hi Andy,

I used a plastic tapered gage, it quickly shows you the gap, accurate to 0.1 mm.

I put marks around the gaps (top middle bottom), and marked the gap on the panel after each correction. I targeted for 5 mm everywhere, which I achieved on the doors. Not on the bonnet/boot lid, here the gap is set by body width. 
Cheers,

Waldi

[PodOne]

Hi Waldi 

Been a bit thick a "Plastic Tapered Gauge" sounds useful but what is it?

Cheers

Andy

[Dave McDonald]

Andy,

See link - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gap-Hole-Taper-Gauge-Metric-Stainless-Hardened-Measure-Tool

Push the wedge into the gap and read width at point where it stops, very accurate.

I've got my TR5 shell back recently from having new floors, inner & outer cills and repair panels to both front wings where they lap over the cills in front of the doors. I've just been trying to improve the fit of the wings over the cills. It's as if the cills where they step back under the wings for the overlap aren't set back deep enough so the wing bottom doesn't line up true with the cill. The TR5 should have a "chrome" strip running over this joint from wing to cill so it's particularly important that I get it aligned correctly.

I'll be back at it tomorrow to try to resolve it. After scratching my head today I feel the angle grinder may have to come out to slit the front part of the cill longitudinally, ease it back slightly to provide the clearance needed and reweld. 

Dave McD

[Waldi]

Hi Andy,

this is the one I used:

https://images.app.goo.gl/yu16RD2JEFfNmzhJA
 

Cheers,

Waldi

[PodOne]

Thanks both.

Dave had to do the same thing in the end got the angle grinder out and cut/shut the sills in a few places.

Andy

[ntc]

1 hour ago, Dave McDonald said:

Andy,

See link - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gap-Hole-Taper-Gauge-Metric-Stainless-Hardened-Measure-Tool

Push the wedge into the gap and read width at point where it stops, very accurate.

I've got my TR5 shell back recently from having new floors, inner & outer cills and repair panels to both front wings where they lap over the cills in front of the doors. I've just been trying to improve the fit of the wings over the cills. It's as if the cills where they step back under the wings for the overlap aren't set back deep enough so the wing bottom doesn't line up true with the cill. The TR5 should have a "chrome" strip running over this joint from wing to cill so it's particularly important that I get it aligned correctly.

I'll be back at it tomorrow to try to resolve it. After scratching my head today I feel the angle grinder may have to come out to slit the front part of the cill longitudinally, ease it back slightly to provide the clearance needed and reweld. 

Dave McD

Dave 

You are correct if they are new sills you will have to cut a slot and weld up as you say the sill trim will show any wrong alignment 

[stuart]

The sills have been a problem for years, the cut in at each end for the wings isnt any where near enough so needs a cut and shut and a bit of lead finishing. If you ever get hold of an original Stanpart sill the difference is huge!

Stuart.

 

[Dave McDonald]

8 hours ago, stuart said:

The sills have been a problem for years, the cut in at each end for the wings isnt any where near enough so needs a cut and shut and a bit of lead finishing. If you ever get hold of an original Stanpart sill the difference is huge!

Stuart.

I've had the wings off today and compared the cut back on these repro cills to those on another TR6 shell that I have with original cills and yes I think that's what I'll have to do. With a 3 foot straight edge on the cills I think I just need to slit them from the cut back as far as the "drain" notch at the fronts. The back wings don't seem to be too bad and I don't think I'll need to do anything there. Serves me right for picking up some cheap and cheerful cills still in their packaging at the Stoneleigh Spares Day last year.

Dave McD

[stuart]

13 hours ago, Dave McDonald said:

I've had the wings off today and compared the cut back on these repro cills to those on another TR6 shell that I have with original cills and yes I think that's what I'll have to do. With a 3 foot straight edge on the cills I think I just need to slit them from the cut back as far as the "drain" notch at the fronts. The back wings don't seem to be too bad and I don't think I'll need to do anything there. Serves me right for picking up some cheap and cheerful cills still in their packaging at the Stoneleigh Spares Day last year.

Dave McD

The rear cut in will still need a bit of a tweak to get the wing to sit in really nice, you may also find you need to add a bit of lead to the bottom of the door as the repro sill tends to slope down slightly too early under the door as the folds arent very crisp.

Stuart.