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Alternator with Vacuum Pump?


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I've been unhappy with the amount of effort required to use my brakes, I've been through standard pads, Hawk HPS & today Hawk HP+, the effort was still greater than I expected. On checking the vacuum to my servo I realised that due to the Racestorations Weber inlet manifold not having a balance pipe I am only using the vacuum from a single inlet. This means that my vacuum is constantly fluctuating on/off/on/off at low RPM, only becoming constant at higher RPM. Clearly I need to increase the vacuum supply to the servo, as I see it I have two options, I could fit an external vacuum pump, my engine bay is fairly cluttered however and I don't readily have room for one, alternatively I could opt for an alternator with a built in vacuum pump, most (all?) of these need an oil supply/return however. I have seen a post on here where someone suggested there are alternators with pumps that don't need an oil feed, can anyone suggest a source of these

Ian

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Ian, I think my J reg 1991 diesel basic Ford transit ex BT had such a beast, but my memory could be playing up! 55 A output rings a bell as well and I cannot recall if it had an oil feed.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Bill 

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12 minutes ago, Bill944T said:

Ian, I think my J reg 1991 diesel basic Ford transit ex BT had such a beast, but my memory could be playing up! 55 A output rings a bell as well and I cannot recall if it had an oil feed.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Bill 

Thanks Bill, the Transit has an oil system I'm afraid.

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Ian,  Shouldn't you have a a non return valve fitted to the manifold, that should then hold the vacuum in the servo, to whatever the highest the manifold went up to, my PI only gets up to about 12" when running, but may be more on the overrun.

John 

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2 minutes ago, John L said:

Ian,  Shouldn't you have a a non return valve fitted to the manifold, that should then hold the vacuum in the servo, to whatever the highest the manifold went up to, my PI only gets up to about 12" when running, but may be more on the overrun.

John 

I've already ordered one this evening John, I should have mentioned that.

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1 hour ago, iani said:

I've been unhappy with the amount of effort required to use my brakes, I've been through standard pads, Hawk HPS & today Hawk HP+, the effort was still greater than I expected. On checking the vacuum to my servo I realised that due to the Racestorations Weber inlet manifold not having a balance pipe I am only using the vacuum from a single inlet. This means that my vacuum is constantly fluctuating on/off/on/off at low RPM, only becoming constant at higher RPM. Clearly I need to increase the vacuum supply to the servo, as I see it I have two options, I could fit an external vacuum pump, my engine bay is fairly cluttered however and I don't readily have room for one, alternatively I could opt for an alternator with a built in vacuum pump, most (all?) of these need an oil supply/return however. I have seen a post on here where someone suggested there are alternators with pumps that don't need an oil feed, can anyone suggest a source of these

Ian

Ian have a read of this also CBS sell an electric vacuum pump, another option I had considered was fitting a vacuum tank behind the splash panel in the OS wheel arch 

 

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1 minute ago, Graham said:

Ian have a read of this also CBS sell an electric vacuum pump, another option I had considered was fitting a vacuum tank behind the splash panel in the OS wheel arch 

 

Thanks Graham, I have read that thread, the corsa diesel ones I've seen have an oil supply and I'd rather avoid that.

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4 minutes ago, iani said:

Thanks Graham, I have read that thread, the corsa diesel ones I've seen have an oil supply and I'd rather avoid that.

Ian try this one 

 

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37 minutes ago, Graham said:

Ian try this one 

 

Thanks Graham, I've searched for most of the cars on the list but none of them showed a vacuum pump.

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Ian yes I’ve been looking like my original post said I took the list from the LRO site did find this however, wrong pulley obviously but looks like no oil vacuum pump alternators are out their 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hyundai-Getz-Accent-Matrix-1-5-CRDi-Alternator-Vacuum-Pump-2001-2005-Models/323948552302?hash=item4b6cd6a06e:g:PxAAAOSwFFVdpbfB

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54 minutes ago, John L said:

Ian,  Shouldn't you have a a non return valve fitted to the manifold, that should then hold the vacuum in the servo, to whatever the highest the manifold went up to, my PI only gets up to about 12" when running, but may be more on the overrun.

John 

That's what I thought, there should be a non-return valve where the vacuum hose enters the servo.

There's high vacuum behind the throttle butterflies on the overrun on a TR6, my vacuum gauge indicaterd close to 30" Hg, with 14" at idle.

Compared to my GT6 without a servo, the TR6 requires less effort on the brake pedal, though of course it's more than a modern car.

Nigel

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I had the Opel Corsa D alternator with vaccuum pump in use

because pedal forces have never been good and with hotter cam

are a bit nasty when you swap from daily driver to TR6.

 

It was not that big deal, oil support came from additional oil feed for cylinder head

with reduced flow and back from air pump the hose was at the blanking plate for

the fuel pump. Worked nice for years until I went to double diaphragm booster from Volvo.

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1 hour ago, TriumphV8 said:

I had the Opel Corsa D alternator with vaccuum pump in use

because pedal forces have never been good and with hotter cam

are a bit nasty when you swap from daily driver to TR6.

 

It was not that big deal, oil support came from additional oil feed for cylinder head

with reduced flow and back from air pump the hose was at the blanking plate for

the fuel pump. Worked nice for years until I went to double diaphragm booster from Volvo.

Thanks Andreas, I have decided to fit a vacuum pump, I have one in my garage anyway, I am also investigating the volvo servo.

Ian

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On 8/16/2020 at 8:42 PM, iani said:

Thanks Andreas, I have decided to fit a vacuum pump, I have one in my garage anyway, I am also investigating the volvo servo.

Ian

Thats the Volvo booster

Bremse2.jpg

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2 hours ago, TriumphV8 said:

Thats the Volvo booster

Bremse2.jpg

Thanks Andreas, with Waldi's help I have already ascertained that it won't fit in my car as there isn't enough room against my airbox.

Ian

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Hi Dan,

the Hella pump us capable of giving a much better vacuum. For RHD cars it may be a good solution, especially on PI cars which have a lower vacuum. Nice bracket too.

Meanwhile I have ordered a servo similar to Andreas’ and Haralds servo, which does (just) fit besides the clutch master. The effective surface is increased by around 100%, so I expect it will give a significant improvement. 

Cheers,

Waldi

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26 minutes ago, Waldi said:

Hi Dan,

the Hella pump us capable of giving a much better vacuum. For RHD cars it may be a good solution, especially on PI cars which have a lower vacuum. Nice bracket too.

Meanwhile I have ordered a servo similar to Andreas’ and Haralds servo, which does (just) fit besides the clutch master. The effective surface is increased by around 100%, so I expect it will give a significant improvement. 

Cheers,

Waldi

thanks Waldi, any details on the servo as I need to replace mine and an upgrade will be nice, as you can see in the picture I no longer have a clutch master cylinder to get in the way.

 

Cheers

 

Dan

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The Volvo Servo is not a plug and play system. It requires new spacer block with studs, fork adaptation, cut-out of the body and new brake lines...

Dan's Hella Pump maybe the easier solution....

Jochem

2 hours ago, DanTR6 said:

ere is my set-up, its a Hella UP28 pump on a Vac switch with a reservoir,

Dan, is the reservoir necessary? Is it not possible to run the pump continously?

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Jochem, the Volvo is plug and play for LHD cars when you buy from Kris Boxem. He also sells the necessary longer brake lines.

Harald

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4 hours ago, DanTR6 said:

If its any help - here is my set-up, its a Hella UP28 pump on a Vac switch with a reservoir, works quite well but it shows up how leaky the original servo is 

Dan

 

IMG_1179.jpeg

Thanks Dan, nice bracket, unfortunately I don't have clearance in this area, my UP5 will have to sit against the N/S inner wing, opposite where the Dizzy would be. I have gone for a UP5 as it is designed to supply a booster on its own, rather than as an addition to the engine vacuum.

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Yes,

As Harald indicates: no modifications were needed on a LHD car.

Diameter Larger servo: Approx. 235 mm, and some 60-70 mm longer. As a result, the MC sits a bit further forward and higher too, but well clear of the bonnet.
All required modifications are done already, and I considered inventing the wheel myself, but once I understood what was needed, I decided to order the modified servo with 2 new copper brake pipes (to the PDWA casing). 
 

19EA26B6-26CB-40C4-A8B1-99FF16FEC0CD.jpeg

83D578D9-BC82-40B0-99AC-ACDDBE9FD35C.jpeg

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19 hours ago, JochemsTR said:

The Volvo Servo is not a plug and play system. It requires new spacer block with studs, fork adaptation, cut-out of the body and new brake lines...

Dan's Hella Pump maybe the easier solution....

Jochem

Dan, is the reservoir necessary? Is it not possible to run the pump continously?

A lot of OEMs run a reservoir, it just helps with the pump continuously cutting in and out. You can run them continuously but the pump life expectancy isn't designed to do that and they do make some noise. I dont have an engine anymore so I dont have any other vacuum source so I have the reservoir and the vac switch, would be interesting to see how much it cuts in and out with the engine vac there as well. 

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I had an inkling that this topic has come up before - found a thread in 2017 which listed the following alternators as having a vacuum pump not needing an oil feed.

Ford transit K - W reg
isuzu trooper
daihatsu fourtrack ( these also have a power steering pump built in )
bedford midi van
peugeot partner van and citroen berlingo
chrysler neon and some voyagers
ford escrot 1.8 diesel van MK5
ford mondeo 1.8 petrol MK1
bedford rascal
suzuki carry or super carry van ( the sooty vans )

I think Graham was the poster.

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