Jump to content

Oil Leak requiring engine out - Engine Crane required


Recommended Posts

Having got my TR3a engine running as smoothly as it has ever done, I now have a significant oil leak from the rear of the engine.

Initially, I thought it was coming from the rocker cover but although that was part of the problem it has now been fixed and the oil leak persists.  Yesterday, I put the car up on ramps so that I could take a good look underneath and discovered a steady drip fom the bottom of the bellhousing when the engine is running.  It's definitely engine oil and stops when I turn the engine off.

When I rebuilt the engine, I had the rear of the crank machined to take a Landrover seal (the Mad Marx seal wasn't available in those days) and whilst it has always had a slight weep, it has been a minor irritation.  This new leak is a steady drip.

As part of an exercise to solve what turned out to be a sticking cam follower, I have recently had the front of the car off and during this work removed and replaced the camshaft.  On the basis that it is usualy the most recent activity that causes the problem, I wonder if I have dislodged the core plug at the rear of the camshaft and that is now leaking.  Whatever it is, the engine will need to come out to address it - B*gger!

In my previous garage I had a substantial beam from which I could hang a chain block but I now live in a modern house with a single garage and no such niceties.  To help me decide on my course of action, does anyone relatively accessible to Frome in Somerset have an engine crane that I could have the use of for a month or so?  I have a large estate car so am happy to collect.

Rgds Ian

PS I assume that once the scroll seal has been machined off the crank there is no route back but are there some lip seals that are more effective than others?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so familiar with 4 pot TRs but wouldn't it be easier to remove the gearbox to get to the rear crank oil seal?

That's the way I would tackle it on my TR6.

Nigel

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ian,

H Had a monster oil leak form the bell housing 6-o-clock drain hole. This turned out to be the gearbox front seal in the clutcg release bearing extension.

The seal was sitting so far into the extension that the ip was missing the sealing ridge on the shaft.

When I started to read your above post my first thought was how to recover the mechined off area.

It would be possible to machine two pieces of steel to give a thick walled tube. The two halves could be screwed together. Then the Chris Marx seal could be used.

I have an engine lift that you could use but I am near Heathrow airport.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nigel Triumph said:

I'm not so familiar with 4 pot TRs but wouldn't it be easier to remove the gearbox to get to the rear crank oil seal?

That's the way I would tackle it on my TR6.

Nigel

Hi Nigel,

removing the engine and GB is not too difficult AND certainly easier to refit.

When the GB is off the engine you then need to get the flywheel off - easy with the engine out of the car.

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was certainly thinking I would remove the engine and gearbox as a unit.  The tunnel has to come out anyway so from there it is not a long step to slide the whole lot out of the front.

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi ian,

Years ago when I still had no money for luxuries like engine lifts I once rebuild an engine with it on axle stands, rings, mains and big ends and oil seal. This was long before I knew anything about centralizing the seal etc etc. never leaked and went like sh1t off a shovel thereafter.

I would be tempted to suggest you do it by removing the gearbox and flywheel. but only if it was the Mad marx seal. Not sure about the installation of the Landrover one.

IMHO removing the 3a engine and box is a lot tighter than a 4/4a and needs more height / clearance.

Interested to know what route you will go with an already machined crankshaft, please update what you did as i'm sure others would also be interested.

I would also look for a double lip Viton seal as I suggested for the timing cover seal. e.g.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-Viton-Rubber/c19_4462/index.html

Measure what you have and match to spec here!

Rod

Edited by Rodbr
Link to post
Share on other sites

Removal of engine and box out of a sidescreen car once the front panel is off only requires a very slight lift to clear the sump, much easier than the later cars. There were a number of problems with the Land Rover seal arrangements when they were the only alternative not least of which was incorrect measurements given for machining of the cranks, I have seen one where the leak was between the seal and the block but Im assuming since it didnt leak badly before the cam replacement your probably correct in thinking its the rear core plug at the end of the cam, we have had this problem too and it will cause a substantial leak, easy enough to replace that plug just by removing the box only and flywheel.

Stuart.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, iain said:

I can’t find my post Ian from some weeks ago , but this might help.

https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr1026k/name/seal-kit-rear-crank-gaco-tr2-4a

My crank was machined to 65mm ....40 years ago, no wonder it leaked.

Iain

Hi Iain,

I can remember the post you are referring to.

My rear crankshaft seal conversion was purchased from Moss (I think), in about 2009.  I am fairly sure the instructions called for the rear of the crank to be machined to 65mm, work that I had carried out by a local machine shop who appeared to know what they were doing.  It has always leaked a very small amount.

I note that the current wisdom seems to be to machine to 63.5 mm - Does that mean a different seal is being used, because otherwise I would have though that the seal would be too tight around the crank if the latter were 1.5mm oversize?

When I have the engine out I will measure the diameter of the crank and proceed from there.

Thanks & rgds Ian

PS For those who are interested here is a link to Iain's original post Crankshaft oil seal 4-cylinder

Edited by Ian Vincent
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ian

the issue is that Dennis Welch of AH fame designed the original lip seal conversion ( something they did to Big Healeys as well) and specified the dimensions of the crank to be 65mm for a Landrover seal. The Landrover seal, is for a 63.5mm journal! Why he did this we will never know, but its wrong. Also the housings supplied to carry the seal were very poorly made and as in Revington technical sheet https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr1026k/name/seal-kit-rear-crank-gaco-tr2-4a have errors that also cause leaks poor alignment etc. In talking to Neil R this is why he decide to make their own and market them in a Black anodized finish so that they knew what seal was fitted, the others are just about impossible to identify.

Moral of the story,  make sure you know what you fitted, where it was sourced, what the spec of the seal is, whether the housing actually fits the block, whether it holds the seal correctly and then install with care. :D

Cheers

Iain

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, iain said:

Hi Ian

the issue is that Dennis Welch of AH fame designed the original lip seal conversion ( something they did to Big Healeys as well) and specified the dimensions of the crank to be 65mm for a Landrover seal. The Landrover seal, is for a 63.5mm journal! Why he did this we will never know, but its wrong. Also the housings supplied to carry the seal were very poorly made and as in Revington technical sheet https://www.revingtontr.com/product/rtr1026k/name/seal-kit-rear-crank-gaco-tr2-4a have errors that also cause leaks poor alignment etc. In talking to Neil R this is why he decide to make their own and market them in a Black anodized finish so that they knew what seal was fitted, the others are just about impossible to identify.

Moral of the story,  make sure you know what you fitted, where it was sourced, what the spec of the seal is, whether the housing actually fits the block, whether it holds the seal correctly and then install with care. :D

Cheers

Iain

+1

From someone who got caught by the 65mm dimension.

Peter W

Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't understand why a crank that is 1.5mm oversize should leak, undersize - yes, but oversize doesn't it just run a bit tight?  Or is that the problem?  It gets hot and the sealing edges get damaged?

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI Ian,

you may have answered your own question.

The correct size journal diameter will put the seal lips under a degree of pressure.  This is good.

If the diameter is too big then not only will the lips suffer due to too much pressure/heat etc but they will deform and possibly not seal correctly.  This is bad.

Rather than machine the journal why not get a bigger seal - look at SimplyBearings

 

Roger

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ian

the seal gets serious friction damage at higher revs as Roger suggests, but please note this is NOT the only issue with the kits sold as previously posted. 
Iain

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Well the engine is now out and ready to be stripped down.  The main leak was from the camshaft core plug although it does look as if the crankshaft may have been leaking a little as well.

So my question now is, what is the best way to seal the camshaft core plug?  Is it just a new one and Wellseal or is there a better solution nowadays?  I don't want to do the job again

Rgds Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian,

Take the core plug out (small 1/4 " cold chisel into the centre and lever out). Clean the camshaft housing for it with thinners (needs to be done thoroughly) , refit a new camshaft welch plug (see the difference between this and a core plug explained in previous posts). I always make a mix of araldite and give it a light smear around the circumference of the welch plug , fit the plug by dishing the welch plug in gently (no need to beat it to death) and then using the remainder of the Araldite to seal around the plug circumference outside. I've never had a welch plug leak when fitted this way no matter where they are on the engine.

Mick Richards

    

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please familiarise yourself with our Terms and Conditions. By using this site, you agree to the following: Terms of Use.