Ralph Whitaker Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Just when things seem to be going well. Yesterday fitted the wings and front shroud, Then noticed that the bonnet was not sitting fully down, about an eighth high. The cause was the bonnet strengthening bar resting on the rad cap. I can`t really move the rad down any more as I only have the one packer which is only about 1/16 inch thick now its tightened down and compressed. I thought about tilting the rad back to gain some more room but things are already tight in there as the electric fan is touching the steering rack already. Looking through pictures of other TRs there seems to be quite a bit of variation in both the lengths and angles of the radiator header tanks. My rad was re-cored by a chap who is now retired unfortunately, but in any case I didn`t really want to have to strip the front off again and remove the rad, and don`t want to try and bend the header tank down a bit in case I split a seam on the top tank. My only options would seem to be a/ set the bonnet stops a little high and live with the slight gap at the front. b/ remove what rubber packers I have fitted and see what i can gain, but I would think that they are there to absorb flexing in the chassis/body, so not sure about this. c/ try to unsolder the filler neck and re solder it lower into the tank. d/ My favorite at the minute, as the bonnet is stripped and not yet painted, put a recess into the reinforcing bar to clear the cap, wouldn`t need to be very deep and it is only the back edge of the top hat section that is catching. e/ Least favorite, remove front and rad and try to alter the position of the filler tank, which would probably mean un soldering from the header tank and altering the shape to tilt it back slightly. I think I am going to alter the bonnet, apart from being the simplest at this stage it means I can carry on with finishing off the front of the car, putting on all the jewellery etc. Interested to hear opinions, and whether anyone else has had this problem. Ralph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobTR3 Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Ralph Why is your radiator expansion tank up at such an angle? It should be level. It looks as if the radiator is tilted forward. are the top support rods for the rad adjusted properly, just a thought. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, RobTR3 said: Ralph Why is your radiator expansion tank up at such an angle? It should be level. It looks as if the radiator is tilted forward. are the top support rods for the rad adjusted properly, just a thought. Rob My thoughts also, I would look at the rad location, maybe teh brackets could be redrilled puching the lower end forward. I wouldn't touch the bonnet spar yet. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, RobTR3 said: Ralph Why is your radiator expansion tank up at such an angle? It should be level. It looks as if the radiator is tilted forward. are the top support rods for the rad adjusted properly, just a thought. Rob I have not got a photo of before I fitted the shroud, but if I had you would see that the radiator was sitting nice and vertical. The radiator was bought secondhand and then I had it re cored. It had several repairs around the expansion tank/ header tank interface and my chap gave it back to me at the same angle as when I gave it to him, so can`t blame him. I looked last night in Bill Piggots wonderful book Original TR and there are a couple of under bonnet photos, one shows a supposedly original car, and the filler cap on that is much further back towards the engine. The other restored car has the cap in about the same place as mine and also tilted like mine. I guess different manufacturers at different times. Anyway, looking at the problem again with fresh eyes this morning I realised that I could lift the electric fan by about half an inch, which gave me a bit of room, so took the steady bars off and wrangled the top hose off which I shortened by 1/2 inch (1/4 off each end). This enabled me to tilt the rad back by 1/2 inch at the top, which brought the filler cap back and down about 1/4. Re fitted and adjusted the steady bars and success. I have now (just) got clearance between the bonnet and rad cap. Not much, only about 2 to 3 mm when the bonnet is flush with the front panel, but hopefully enough. So not so much a hump in the road, more a pebble, or just me making mountains out of molehills. Enough of the analogies, Ralph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Morrison Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 An issue, 'Slept on' and solved. John. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EliTR6 Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, John Morrison said: An issue, 'Slept on' and solved. John. I need to sleep more often! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Hmmm this might have something to do with my bonnet misalignment as well. The bonnet actually rests on the rad cap and the cap has a rubber pad on it to stop metal on metal. Previous owner quick fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Ralph Whitaker said: I have not got a photo of before I fitted the shroud, but if I had you would see that the radiator was sitting nice and vertical. The radiator was bought secondhand and then I had it re cored. It had several repairs around the expansion tank/ header tank interface and my chap gave it back to me at the same angle as when I gave it to him, so can`t blame him. I looked last night in Bill Piggots wonderful book Original TR and there are a couple of under bonnet photos, one shows a supposedly original car, and the filler cap on that is much further back towards the engine. The other restored car has the cap in about the same place as mine and also tilted like mine. I guess different manufacturers at different times. Anyway, looking at the problem again with fresh eyes this morning I realised that I could lift the electric fan by about half an inch, which gave me a bit of room, so took the steady bars off and wrangled the top hose off which I shortened by 1/2 inch (1/4 off each end). This enabled me to tilt the rad back by 1/2 inch at the top, which brought the filler cap back and down about 1/4. Re fitted and adjusted the steady bars and success. I have now (just) got clearance between the bonnet and rad cap. Not much, only about 2 to 3 mm when the bonnet is flush with the front panel, but hopefully enough. So not so much a hump in the road, more a pebble, or just me making mountains out of molehills. Enough of the analogies, Ralph. Which top hose did you fit? These are renowned for being too long and need to be reduced to less than 4 1/2" long. ( 4" would be OK probably on a sidescreen car) To fit. Remove the thermo housing assembly from the head, slide hose on at both ends and refit the two vertical bolts and hose clips. Do not get into wrangling the hose into the gap between the two water spigots. Cost is a gasket. Cheers Peter W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billy l Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Hi, The radiator expansion tank should not be level, but yours looks to be too steep, I think the proper fix unfortunatley is to remove the rad and re-solder it in correct position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billy l Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Which top hose did you fit? These are renowned for being too long and need to be reduced to less than 4 1/2" long. ( 4" would be OK probably on a sidescreen car) To fit. Remove the thermo housing assembly from the head, slide hose on at both ends and refit the two vertical bolts and hose clips. Do not get into wrangling the hose into the gap between the two water spigots. Cost is a gasket. Cheers Peter W Good point Peter, didn't think of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 I just checked my bonnet and there is at least 1" clearance. Yours has not been repaired correctly. It is a nuisance to have to remove the front bpanel now, but it is better than when it is all finished and the weather is cold . If you do not alter the angle it will annoy you every time you open the bonnet for the next ten years. I fitted my petrol pipe incorrectly and I see it every time the bonnet is open. If you adjust the strengthening bar it will only be quiet until the whole car settles down after all the work. I have often looked for shortcuts and they very seldom work. Good luck Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 My top hose is 5.5" so I will cut that back as soon as possible. However there is a filter right behind the reservoir, less than an 1/8 of an inch. Should I be worried about the reservoir melting it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Overhead shot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, David Owen said: Overhead shot Who is thinking "move the filter you idiot"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Richardtr3a said: I have often looked for shortcuts and they very seldom work. +1 Occasionally, yes. Usually, no. Charlie Edited August 14, 2020 by Charlie D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Richardtr3a Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 The filter is an extra anyway and moving it is very easy. Richard & B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 6 hours ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said: Which top hose did you fit? These are renowned for being too long and need to be reduced to less than 4 1/2" long. ( 4" would be OK probably on a sidescreen car) To fit. Remove the thermo housing assembly from the head, slide hose on at both ends and refit the two vertical bolts and hose clips. Do not get into wrangling the hose into the gap between the two water spigots. Cost is a gasket. Cheers Peter W It was 5 inches long and I reduced it to 4.5. Wouldn`t be able to get down to 4 inches as the fan is now close to the turret support brace, but I had already reduced its length so it must have been nearer 6 inches long when new. 9 hours ago, David Owen said: Hmmm this might have something to do with my bonnet misalignment as well. The bonnet actually rests on the rad cap and the cap has a rubber pad on it to stop metal on metal. Previous owner quick fix. Looks like you have an electric fan too, but hopefully like me you might just get enough room to tilt the rad back and gain some clearance, and yes, I was thinking "move the filter". Ralph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlueTR3A-5EKT Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Ralph Whitaker said: It was 5 inches long and I reduced it to 4.5. Wouldn`t be able to get down to 4 inches as the fan is now close to the turret support brace, but I had already reduced its length so it must have been nearer 6 inches long when new. Looks like you have an electric fan too, but hopefully like me you might just get enough room to tilt the rad back and gain some clearance, and yes, I was thinking "move the filter". Ralph. I have a copy of the original factory drawing of the top hose for TR4 and it shews it's overall length to be 4 1/2". Over the years a lot of inaccurate reproduction top hoses have been sold into the market. The stockinette covered top hose I have been involved in remaking is to the original factory drawing plus it utilises EPDM rubber that is reinforced internally as well as having the stockinette covering. Moss Europe and Roadster Factory currently purchase this item. Peter W Edited August 14, 2020 by BlueTR3A-5EKT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 This is so much fun. Thanks everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John McCormack Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 15 hours ago, John Morrison said: An issue, 'Slept on' and solved. John. A much needed bit of advice in this statement. A coffee for a small issue, a sleep for a bigger one, often solves the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikej Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 Perhaps a minor contribution but the rad fixing bolts (which have nylock nuts and spacers for some reason?) are through what seems to be a very thick rubber pad between the rad bracket and the chassis - not 100% confident mine are correct but they are much thinner and made of fibre matt similar to the 4 inner wing fixing spacers, not rubbery stuff. All these came from C&B in the '70s so probably correct tbc. I'd not modify the bonnet, not at all. Perhaps just be the angle of the photo but you may want to check for plenty of space between the oil breather/cap and the underside of the bonnet. Cheers, Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ralph Whitaker Posted August 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 16 minutes ago, mikej said: Perhaps a minor contribution but the rad fixing bolts (which have nylock nuts and spacers for some reason?) are through what seems to be a very thick rubber pad between the rad bracket and the chassis - not 100% confident mine are correct but they are much thinner and made of fibre matt similar to the 4 inner wing fixing spacers, not rubbery stuff. All these came from C&B in the '70s so probably correct tbc. I'd not modify the bonnet, not at all. Perhaps just be the angle of the photo but you may want to check for plenty of space between the oil breather/cap and the underside of the bonnet. Cheers, Mike Hi Mike, you are quite right, the captive nuts which were welded to the rad support bracket had been stripped and drilled out at some point in its past life. I did not see this until I came to fit the rad so used a couple of 5/16 bolts and nylocks the reasoning being I did not want to compress the rubber pads solid. To allow a bit of movement I nipped them down so that they were just starting to compress the pads and used the nylocks so that the nuts would stay put. The pads were as supplied by Moss, and were exactly the same as the pads in the body fitting kit, ie just cut from rubber sheet about 6mm thick. The old pads were indeed a canvass and rubber composite material, why they don`t make them from this I don`t know, unless it is no longer available. Having resolved the issue I no longer need to modify the bonnet, and there is tons of space the further back you go as the bonnet slopes up towards the bulkhead. Cheers, Ralph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobTR3 Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 I,ve added a photo of my car to show the clearance between the top of the rad cap and the bonnet lift assembly. It's about 1/2". The expansion tank isn't level, it rises slightly from the rad. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stuart Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/14/2020 at 9:22 PM, David Owen said: My top hose is 5.5" so I will cut that back as soon as possible. However there is a filter right behind the reservoir, less than an 1/8 of an inch. Should I be worried about the reservoir melting it? I would be, not a good choice of filter or positioning. Stuart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Owen Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 hours ago, stuart said: I would be, not a good choice of filter or positioning. Stuart. It originally had a glass filter there is that what you'd recommend> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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