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My headlights are pants


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kak LED's fail MOT, just like kak halogens. 99% of halogens will not fail.
If the voltage at the bulb connector is too low output will be low.
Relays are always a good thing.

Autobulbsdirect & the other supplies of LED bulbs sell a lot of ****. They hide behind the suppliers specifications & know better yet they quote suppliers specifications. Please avoid.
I have bought rear LED's from AutoBulbsDirect & they were overpriced 5H1T3.

PS, Advertising convectional bulbs that are 200% brighter is also meaningless 5H1T3. Don't be fooled by advertised specs. Don't be fooled by price.

Headlamp washes required on a 72 headlamp if fitted with LED's? Behave.

A hell of a lot of misinformation out there

Cheers,

Iain.

Edited by SpitFireSIX
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps

 

HID headlamp unit requirements

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the aftermarket should:

·         be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component

·         when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place)

·         comply with RVLR as far as “use” is concerned

In practice this means:

·         the headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be “e-marked” to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo, etc - who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory

·         once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have “self-levelling suspension” and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam

·         the headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly in the same way as any other headlamp

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary: it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

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6 hours ago, Bill944T said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps

 

HID headlamp unit requirements

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the aftermarket should:

·         be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component

·         when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place)

·         comply with RVLR as far as “use” is concerned

In practice this means:

·         the headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be “e-marked” to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo, etc - who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory

·         once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have “self-levelling suspension” and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam

·         the headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly in the same way as any other headlamp

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary: it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

Are HID's the same as LED's?

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On 8/11/2020 at 8:40 PM, Chris Seymour said:

The number plate also has never been an issue at any testing station, and the 9 years I have owned it, it has been to a few! No it’s not fully compliant with the law, but I have seen a lot smaller than mine!

" but I have seen a lot smaller than mine!"

Errr... I think I feel your pain but luckily don't share it ...lol.

Mick Richards

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18 hours ago, SpitFireSIX said:

Are HID's the same as LED's?

Looking on the government website at what is required to pass an MOT, LEDs are mentioned "en passant" as being one of a number of light sources. There is no restriction comparable to that for HID. It would seem to me that LED headlamps are acceptable as long as they operate correctly in dipped mode with respect to cutoff areas. So it goes back to what others have said earlier in this thread, if the LED doesn't match the spec of a headlamp, it will fail the MOT and is therefore illegal, but if they have the same light output pattern, they are OK. The main restriction seems to be that where the Headlamps are in pairs (as they are on TRs), they must have the same colour and similar output to each other. i.e. matched pairs.

Just make sure they are properly adjusted. A light output of a 10Watt LED is equivalent to a 100Watt incandescent bulb and is very annoying for other road users if not properly aligned.

EU law requires LEDs to show the light output in Lumens, since Watts are a measure of the power needed to run the lamp. Incandescent Lamps only convert 10% of the power supplied to them as light. The rest is heat. With LEDs it is almost the exact opposite.

I hope that helps

TT

URL - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment

 

Edited by tthomson
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I went down the relay and Xenons road; I have never regretted it.

LEDs in Germany are an ablsolute No, No.

I wonder what happens when the police check the car and see LEDs?. Is the insurance non valid?

If I drive in Europe with LEDs, what is the insurance situation?

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3 minutes ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

I went down the relay and Xenons road; I have never regretted it.

LEDs in Germany are an ablsolute No, No.

I wonder what happens when the police check the car and see LEDs?. Is the insurance non valid?

If I drive in Europe with LEDs, what is the insurance situation?

Hi Peter,

many Insurance brokers in the UK (including the TRRI) have stated that they do not have a problem with LED headlights as long as they are set correctly.

 

Roger

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+1 with Roger, I fitted LEDs, informed my insurance company, no kickback. I think that the key with LEDs is quality, you really do ‘get what you pay for’, especially in respect of beam pattern. I also went for ‘warm white’ which significantly reduces the annoyance factor.

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5 hours ago, Peter Douglas Winn said:

I went down the relay and Xenons road; I have never regretted it.

LEDs in Germany are an ablsolute No, No.

I wonder what happens when the police check the car and see LEDs?. Is the insurance non valid?

If I drive in Europe with LEDs, what is the insurance situation?

In Australia the police have issued defect notices for older cars they find fitted with LED's. In Queensland they'll put you off the road. I'm weighing up the issues because I have an old Holden V8 I use for a lot of country nightime travel over winter.

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^ sounds like you ought to find a neat pair of driving spot lamps to go on the car.  I wouldn't have thought the police would put you off the road if you occasionally used those, as long as they weren't blinding other drivers.

Pete.

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I have gone with Cibie H4 headlights (if you can find them in RHD), Osram Nightbreaker bulbs and relays (the latter optional I agree but a better electrical design).

I find this set up optimal on a couple of classics I own that use 7" round headlights. It gives a significant beam pattern and brightness upgrade that is still based on the original set up and without any legal baggage.

 

Andrew

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We've done a number of round Britain reliability runs and 10 country rallies and have had no issues running on halogens run through relays. We fitted extra halogen spots but even crossing the cheviot hills in near monsoon conditions at midnight we saw no need to turn them on. In fact my co driver drove only on dipped beams because she found the main beam switch annoying to use.  

Personally I feel if you have good lenses, good bulbs and 12v at the bulb the system is more than adequate. 

Tim

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2 hours ago, Tim D. said:

We've done a number of round Britain reliability runs and 10 country rallies and have had no issues running on halogens run through relays. We fitted extra halogen spots but even crossing the cheviot hills in near monsoon conditions at midnight we saw no need to turn them on. In fact my co driver drove only on dipped beams because she found the main beam switch annoying to use.  

Personally I feel if you have good lenses, good bulbs and 12v at the bulb the system is more than adequate. 

Tim

Hi Tim,

I totally agree, but the difficulty for many is getting a full voltage at the headlamp bulbs, and having a decent ground return so that the full wattage is available. Anything that adds resistance into the circuit diminishes the output. Using LEDs means additional resistances have less impact on light output, but can also hide the real problem. Any additional resistance in the circuit is undesirable, and is somewhere that can get hot even to the point of catching fire. Far better to get decent operation with Incandescent lamps, and then convert to LED to get the maximum benefit, if that is what you want. The main benefit from LEDs is in the reduced current requirements, (approximately one tenth that required by an incandescent bulb).

TT

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Hi All

My understanding is HID headlamps, must have a leveling system and wash and HID are NOT retrofitable unless you fit a whole new approve HID unit with said fittings, then it has to be approve for that car type.

So def no HID on TR’s.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/aftermarket-hid-headlamps/aftermarket-hid-headlamps

But it’s not so clear with aftermarket LED’s as I am not aware of a similar page for LED’s as the above on HID’s. But as MM says strictly speaking they are not approved as they were not included in the original TR Type Approval (or equivalent way back when) and because they do not and cannot meet the basic lighting regs that apply as they were written before LED’s were invented. So lamps need to be within a certain wattage range to give a certain light output but as LED’s produce way more light per watt they would be way to bright if within that range. So in effect they do the job better and more efficiently but do not meet the regs, silly or what for indicators, side lights and rev lights etc.

But with headlights its more difficult as cheapo crappy LEDs of unmatched pairs with rubbish patterns and cut offs could be a real problem.

So at the moment I’m LED on everything but headlamps and have told my ins co and they don’t seem to concerned.

But clearly the regs need updating so we ca get the benefits of LED technology rather than the current candle in a jar effect.

Cheers  Keith

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The point I was trying to make was, if the LEDs or whatever are not acceptable to the authorities e.g MOT, what do the insurance people say? Not the other way round, the insurance have accepted something that may be illegal. Here in Germany we loose our Historical status. If we loose that, we automatically loose our Historical Insurance. As Mike says the Police can pull you up. Whereby I wonder how many young police officers understand the difference.

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On 8/20/2020 at 10:14 AM, tthomson said:

Hi Tim,

I totally agree, but the difficulty for many is getting a full voltage at the headlamp bulbs, and having a decent ground return so that the full wattage is available. Anything that adds resistance into the circuit diminishes the output. Using LEDs means additional resistances have less impact on light output, but can also hide the real problem. Any additional resistance in the circuit is undesirable, and is somewhere that can get hot even to the point of catching fire. Far better to get decent operation with Incandescent lamps, and then convert to LED to get the maximum benefit, if that is what you want. The main benefit from LEDs is in the reduced current requirements, (approximately one tenth that required by an incandescent bulb).

TT

Hi TT, absolutely agree. Hard to fight with Ohm's law and I have certainly considered the option. 

Tim

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