TR6 Exhaust with triple Weber setup.

[Roger O]

I have a TR6 that was modified for triple Webers on a Canon manifold prior to me purchasing it.

 I have had a lot of ground clearance problems with the twin Falcon Exhaust that was fitted and have decided to replace it. I purchased a Revington tubular manifold and single pipe system but, in my opinion, it will be too drastic to modify the inlet manifold for it to fit. As such, I shall be returning it.

The head is currently off and being set up for unleaded fuel and brought up to Stage II spec. In the meantime, I have to either source a tubular manifold that is more compatible with the Weber setup or keep the cast iron one and find a suitable system that is free flowing and give more ground clearance. Any suggestions?

One last question, whilst the head is off is there much advantage to be gained in removing the camshaft and fitting a ‘higher torque’ version and renewing the timing gear and chain? 
 

The car is used for occasional classic rallying on road.

Many thanks,

Roger

[astontr6]

29 minutes ago, Roger O said:

I have a TR6 that was modified for triple Webers on a Canon manifold prior to me purchasing it.

 I have had a lot of ground clearance problems with the twin Falcon Exhaust that was fitted and have decided to replace it. I purchased a Revington tubular manifold and single pipe system but, in my opinion, it will be too drastic to modify the inlet manifold for it to fit. As such, I shall be returning it.

The head is currently off and being set up for unleaded fuel and brought up to Stage II spec. In the meantime, I have to either source a tubular manifold that is more compatible with the Weber setup or keep the cast iron one and find a suitable system that is free flowing and give more ground clearance. Any suggestions?

One last question, whilst the head is off is there much advantage to be gained in removing the camshaft and fitting a ‘higher torque’ version and renewing the timing gear and chain? 
 

The car is used for occasional classic rallying on road.

Many thanks,

Roger

If you are going to use Triple Webers I do not see why the other mods to the engine are not done ?

Gas flowed head with larger inlets.

6 Branch exhaust manifold with 2 1/4" bore exhaust pipe system.

Newman PH2 camshaft which is ground on a new blank with their EN40 cam followers. Do not fall into the trap of regrind cams?

This combination will release a lot more power from your engine and the camshaft is quite roadable power starts at 1500 RPM with the above mods,

Bruce 

[Roger O]

Thanks Bruce. My main problem is finding a 6 branch exhaust manifold that will mate with my Canon inlet manifold.

[stuart]

16 minutes ago, Roger O said:

Thanks Bruce. My main problem is finding a 6 branch exhaust manifold that will mate with my Canon inlet manifold.

Talk to these guys http://www.racetorations.co.uk/triumph-c56/tr6-c9/tr6-engine-c18/tr6-engine-exhaust-systems-c217/exhaust-systems-c306

Stuart.

[ntc]

3 hours ago, Roger O said:

I have a TR6 that was modified for triple Webers on a Canon manifold prior to me purchasing it.

 I have had a lot of ground clearance problems with the twin Falcon Exhaust that was fitted and have decided to replace it. I purchased a Revington tubular manifold and single pipe system but, in my opinion, it will be too drastic to modify the inlet manifold for it to fit. As such, I shall be returning it.

The head is currently off and being set up for unleaded fuel and brought up to Stage II spec. In the meantime, I have to either source a tubular manifold that is more compatible with the Weber setup or keep the cast iron one and find a suitable system that is free flowing and give more ground clearance. Any suggestions?

One last question, whilst the head is off is there much advantage to be gained in removing the camshaft and fitting a ‘higher torque’ version and renewing the timing gear and chain? 
 

The car is used for occasional classic rallying on road.

Many thanks,

Roger

Tr Shop do a single boar system that will fit the std manifold which is up to the job £385. Sounds great.

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

5 hours ago, ntc said:

Tr Shop do a single boar system that will fit the std manifold which is up to the job £385. Sounds great.

+1

[TRTOM2498PI]

Hi Roger,

I have a TR6 with Cannon inlet manifold with Jenvey throttle bodies, combined with a TLE race exhaust manifold (that wraps around the steering column).  

What is the issue with the RTR exhaust manifold & Cannon inlet ?

I know for sure with most/all after market exhaust manifolds that the flanges are much thinner in thickness to an original cast iron manifold, so you have to 'relieve' metal around where the manifold 'toggles' go, otherwise it does not bolt up flush with the head. The result of this is you get exhaust blow in this area.

Also be aware of the quality of exhaust manifold gaskets, as some of the ones are the market are not good, and begin to disintegrate after a short period of time. You can buy good quality ones from Germany, which are made of steel-FYI.

If you have triple webers and having the head done, take a look at Newman cams. There is a wide selection of cams from road to race, so will suit most applications. As above, their EN40 steel followers are very good. Their cams are based on a new blank, not re-profiled !! 

http://www.erstellen.co.uk/newman-cams/PRICELIST-BROCHURE_2020-TRIUMPH.pdf 

Like anything, depends how far you want to go, and how well built the bottom end is to take the additional power up top.

It will certainly be totally tractable with a PH2 Newman cam on webers, with power when you want it. 

 

Cheers.

[roy53]

depends on your location. But you can go bespoke for there are several companies doing this. Sometimes cheaper as well.

I use one in Kent

Roy

[astontr6]

14 hours ago, TRTOM2498PI said:

Hi Roger,

I have a TR6 with Cannon inlet manifold with Jenvey throttle bodies, combined with a TLE race exhaust manifold (that wraps around the steering column).  

What is the issue with the RTR exhaust manifold & Cannon inlet ?

I know for sure with most/all after market exhaust manifolds that the flanges are much thinner in thickness to an original cast iron manifold, so you have to 'relieve' metal around where the manifold 'toggles' go, otherwise it does not bolt up flush with the head. The result of this is you get exhaust blow in this area.

Also be aware of the quality of exhaust manifold gaskets, as some of the ones are the market are not good, and begin to disintegrate after a short period of time. You can buy good quality ones from Germany, which are made of steel-FYI.

If you have triple webers and having the head done, take a look at Newman cams. There is a wide selection of cams from road to race, so will suit most applications. As above, their EN40 steel followers are very good. Their cams are based on a new blank, not re-profiled !! 

http://www.erstellen.co.uk/newman-cams/PRICELIST-BROCHURE_2020-TRIUMPH.pdf 

Like anything, depends how far you want to go, and how well built the bottom end is to take the additional power up top.

It will certainly be totally tractable with a PH2 Newman cam on webers, with power when you want it. 

 

Cheers.

As far as exhaust manifold gaskets go I only use OEM J Payen type part number JA510.  which are steel as well.    These are obtainable from Ferrari Piston services agents or from Heritage gaskets who bought up a lot of the old Payen stock. The German ones are on better than the Payen types but will be a lot more expensive!

Bruce. 

[Dave McDonald]

On 7/27/2020 at 11:04 AM, astontr6 said:

As far as exhaust manifold gaskets go I only use OEM J Payen type part number JA510.  which are steel as well.    These are obtainable from Ferrari Piston services agents or from Heritage gaskets who bought up a lot of the old Payen stock. The German ones are on better than the Payen types but will be a lot more expensive!

Bruce. 

I've been trying to buy Payen JA510 manifold gaskets which I always use, but can't locate any. I was wondering and your post seems to confirm, have Payen gone out of business?

Dave McD

[astontr6]

14 minutes ago, Dave McDonald said:

I've been trying to buy Payen JA510 manifold gaskets which I always use, but can't locate any. I was wondering and your post seems to confirm, have Payen gone out of business?

Dave McD

Hi Dave,

No they have not! J Payen was part of Coopers Mechanical Joints who were the OEM. J Payen was after market and were bought by a USA company called Felpro. All the tooling was transferred to South Africa, where they now produce the J Payen Gaskets. As I understand their main distributor here in the UK is Ferrari Piston Services who have had this position for over 50 years! I would phone FPS and ask them where in your area is their local Distributor. I bought a complete engine set for my TR 18 months ago, which included JA510!

Bruce.

[Tom Fremont]

My '250s both have triple Weber DCOEs and CANNON manifolds. One has the Racetorations 6-2-1 manifold which fouls the #1 intake tract which must be ground away to clear. I've done this twice, and fenced the 2nd one in favor of the GOODPARTS 6-3-1 manifold ( which doesn't foul ) because the former didn't " extract " enough to give good mid range torque/power - then again it has a Racetorations conceived 1312 cam with extreme lift and duration. The other engine does fine with the 6-2-1 and its CP cam however. The Racetorations single bore adapter sits below the frame slightly. The GOODPARTS setup doesn't, but has a 3-bolt flange which requires a mating flange to be welded on and  oriented just right to mate, and it's not perpendicular to the pipe.

Neither factory exhaust manifold ( single outlet or dual ) will foul the CANNON.

I won't deal with NEWMAN after a very bad experience years ago, related on this forum. I still have one of their CP cams which has " STANPART " in the casting which I won't be using. PM me if interested; eventually I'll fence it and their EN40 steel followers as well ( I'll be using Piper and GOODPARTS for cam and followers in the spare engine's rebuild, currently underway ).

MOSS USA have a " heavy duty " manifold gasket which I have been happy with for over 100K miles of use. No metal is visible in it.

 

Cheers,

Tom 

[BlueTR3A-5EKT]

1 hour ago, Tom Fremont said:

My '250s both have triple Weber DCOEs and CANNON manifolds. One has the Racetorations 6-2-1 manifold which fouls the #1 intake tract which must be ground away to clear. I've done this twice, and fenced the 2nd one in favor of the GOODPARTS 6-3-1 manifold ( which doesn't foul ) because the former didn't " extract " enough to give good mid range torque/power - then again it has a Racetorations conceived 1312 cam with extreme lift and duration. The other engine does fine with the 6-2-1 and its CP cam however. The Racetorations single bore adapter sits below the frame slightly. The GOODPARTS setup doesn't, but has a 3-bolt flange which requires a mating flange to be welded on and  oriented just right to mate, and it's not perpendicular to the pipe.

Neither factory exhaust manifold ( single outlet or dual ) will foul the CANNON.

I won't deal with NEWMAN after a very bad experience years ago, related on this forum. I still have one of their CP cams which has " STANPART " in the casting which I won't be using. PM me if interested; eventually I'll fence it and their EN40 steel followers as well ( I'll be using Piper and GOODPARTS for cam and followers in the spare engine's rebuild, currently underway ).

MOSS USA have a " heavy duty " manifold gasket which I have been happy with for over 100K miles of use. No metal is visible in it.

 

Cheers,

Tom 

Do you know if the GoodParts extractor manifold fits a RHD car.?  ie routes a way round the steering shaft.

Cheers

Peter W

[Tom Fremont]

1 hour ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Do you know if the GoodParts extractor manifold fits a RHD car.?  ie routes a way round the steering shaft.

Cheers

Peter W

Good question! It crossed my mind and then vanished before I posted. 

I look forward to the answer...

Of possible interest [ to the Weber crowd ]  regarding that manifold: i had to downsize the main jet from  135->130  and increase the air corrector from 155 -> 190 to restore the top end power after fitting the GOODPARTS. That's equivalent to ~ 3 sizes smaller main jet! " I am unable to build it in stainless " he wrote when I offered to pay a premium for one such, but they are " ceramic " coated in 3 different temperature ratings. 

Cheers,

Tom

[Dave McDonald]

On 7/28/2020 at 8:53 PM, astontr6 said:

Hi Dave,

No they have not! J Payen was part of Coopers Mechanical Joints who were the OEM. J Payen was after market and were bought by a USA company called Felpro. All the tooling was transferred to South Africa, where they now produce the J Payen Gaskets. As I understand their main distributor here in the UK is Ferrari Piston Services who have had this position for over 50 years! I would phone FPS and ask them where in your area is their local Distributor. I bought a complete engine set for my TR 18 months ago, which included JA510!

Bruce.

Thanks Bruce,

I tried to Google Heritage Gaskets that you mentioned in your previous post but it just kept scrolling over and over so guess they're not avaiable.

Dave McD

[astontr6]

11 hours ago, Dave McDonald said:

Thanks Bruce,

I tried to Google Heritage Gaskets that you mentioned in your previous post but it just kept scrolling over and over so guess they're not avaiable.

Dave McD

Have you phoned FPS?

Bruce.

[stuart]

Direct link for FPS https://fpsdistribution.com/

Stuart.

[Dave McDonald]

Bruce/Stuart,

Thanks for the info about FPS, when I went on their website I recognised the logo and have seen their delivery vehicles locally.

Rang them today. Unfortunately they don't stock the Payen JA510 manifold gasket anymore though they do still have a limited stock of other Payen products. I understand the Payen manufacturing went to either Australia or south Africa and the supply is drying up but that in any case the quality has gone to pot.

Does anyone have a similar alternative that they can recommend?

Dave McD