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47 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Hi Brian,

do you know the thread size  (1" UNF !!!)   . I have some odd big ones.

 

Roger

 

PS - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-UNF-BOTTOM-TAP-BRITISH-MADE-GALTONA/303563715237?hash=item46adceb2a5:g:kc8AAOSwOzxet9SY

Hi Roger,

Peter W says above it's 1" NF, which is essentially the same as UNF. So yes that tap on eBay should do the job, unless you have one I could borrow?

Brian

Edited by Brian Eldred
Mistake
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3 hours ago, RogerH said:

Hi Brian,

do you know the thread size  (1" UNF !!!)   . I have some odd big ones.

 

Roger

 

PS - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-UNF-BOTTOM-TAP-BRITISH-MADE-GALTONA/303563715237?hash=item46adceb2a5:g:kc8AAOSwOzxet9SY

Bargain!  I wish I could justify buying it.

Peter W

PS Have you checked the pitch of the thread in the head? 

The chart I have just looked at says 1" unf is 14 tpi

http://engineeringsupplies.co.uk/threads-tapping-drill-sizes-i-27.html

Edited by BlueTR3A-5EKT
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I'm tempted

Yesterday I had a vision of a box of large taps and I thought they were in my workshop.

Somebody found them at BA when a workshop was on the move, dozens and dozens all odd sizes.  Sadly that is where they stayed. But I can still see them so clearly.

Roger

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48 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Bargain!  I wish I could justify buying it.

Peter W

PS Have you checked the pitch of the thread in the head? 

The chart I have just looked at says 1" unf is 14 tpi

http://engineeringsupplies.co.uk/threads-tapping-drill-sizes-i-27.html

I'm confused, I've seen it listed at both 12tpi and 14tpi.

there's another on eBay clearly 14tpi https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-UNF14-TAP/274422747526?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225114%26meid%3D85398b8dd2144e1eac3c6c5baba4fe0f%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D274422747526%26itm%3D274422747526%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aee6eeb0e-cc39-11ea-a9ec-74dbd180715d|parentrq%3A77650a301730abc031c71593fff21d74|iid%3A1

I'll wait til the plug comes and see if I can measure it somehow.

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26 minutes ago, RogerH said:

Caution Time

The Tracy Tools tap is 12tpi  The chart I have posted says 1" is 14tpi.  The ebay Galtona one does not specify pitch.

Time to check the pitch of the tapped hole if you intend to re thread it with a tap.

NB 1"  BSF is 10 tpi.  & 1" BSW is 8 tpi,   then Whit Form ranges from 12, 14, 16, 20 24, 26, 28, 32 tpi for 1" diameter.

Peter W

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20 minutes ago, BlueTR3A-5EKT said:

Caution Time

The Tracy Tools tap is 12tpi  The chart I have posted says 1" is 14tpi.  The ebay Galtona one does not specify pitch.

Time to check the pitch of the tapped hole if you intend to re thread it with a tap.

NB 1"  BSF is 10 tpi.  & 1" BSW is 8 tpi,   then Whit Form ranges from 12, 14, 16, 20 24, 26, 28, 32 tpi for 1" diameter.

Peter W

From Wikipedia: (*) For many years non-standard 1-inch 14-tpi nuts and bolts have been widely used instead of standard-sized 1-inch 12-tpi fasteners; consequently 1″-14 fasteners are easier to find and less expensive than 1″-12 fasteners. After several decades 1″-14 fasteners have now come to be commonly referred to as "Standard Fine Thread" or "UNF". Though technically incorrect (the UNF standard specifies 1″-12), size 1″-14 is universally accepted as standard for fine-threaded 1-inch fasteners, and "1-inch 14-tpi NF" has become established as a "common use" term, or "a genericized brand name/standard". In other words, the 1″-12 standard has lacked effective enforcement for a long enough time (many decades) to give generic trademark–like status to 1-inch 14-tpi fasteners.

Why does life have to be so complicated :angry:. I guess I need a pitch gauge now...

Edited by Brian Eldred
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What about trying a tractor workshop preferably one that has been around for some time. They use routinely massive bolts by our standards. There is one near me that could perhaps help as they specifically deal in old Massey stuff so probably know the head. let me know if you want their details. Match the plug to a bolt (thread to thread). Cut four vertical slots in the bolt thread and you have a crude but workable die and cheap. Work it in and out with some grease and clean and replace the plug with plumbers thread glue.

Just a thought.

Rod

Edited by Rodbr
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Brian,

We have these odd synapse firings occasionally.

Here;s another, you bought a stick of plugs yes?

Sacrifice the first one and cut the cleaning slots in it and use that then .....................you know then it will fit. If you are in any doubt about it sealing cut it off the first one and continue with replacement as you planned. Cost nil as you've bought the plugs anyway.

Rod

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My neighbour took the plug to work but couldn't find a matching tap, despite his mechanic having a full set of UNF/UNC. So then I called Revington, who measured the thread and confirmed it is 12 tpi. I've ordered the tap from Tracy Tools. I only have the one plug, not a stick, so can't try Rod's suggestion. The saga continues....!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well it's sorted at last. I cleaned the thread with the tap, cut a slot in the top, applied Locktite 577 and screwed it in. For info the thread is 1" UNF 12 tpi, and if anyone else needs to do the same job I have a tap to lend/sell!

I now have another question before I fire her up: I guess I should flush with oil to some degree, since there's been water where there shouldn't be. Also the engine has supposedly been turned over periodically, but hasn't been started for a long time, maybe 20 years. Should I use flushing oil, or just run it with some ordinary oil for a few miles then change? If ordinary oil, does it matter too much what grade? I have some surplus 15/40 semi-synthetic I could use.

Thanks, Brian

Cyl head plug 4.jpg

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6 hours ago, Ian Vincent said:

The oil needs to be suitable for flat tappet engines, in other words it needs to contain zinc in the form of ZDDP. There are plenty of references to this on the forum. 

Good point, and I remember that amongst all the rebuild receipts is one for a new cam and followers. I've no idea if and how it was run in, so I'll fill up with Classic Oils Heritage, which is what I use in my other car and has high ZDDP content. Then do an early oil change.

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I think you will be OK if you build up oil pressure by putting a long screwdriver blade in the distributor hole into the oil pump slot and spinning if with a drill. That will flush any water through and give everything a good coating of oil. I did that with my new engine that had been sitting for 5 or so years since it was built.

I then ran the engine on the starter with no spark plugs until I had good oil pressure.

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Hi Brian,

if it was the cam that I sold you (Moss TT1104) then it was run in at apprx 2000rpm for apprx 20minutes. with good oil ressure before start up.

I would have thought for a 5-10minute flush a cheaper oil with any ZDDP would suffice as it is not under load. Thn fill with something like the Heritage 20/50 as per above.

 

Roger

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3 hours ago, John McCormack said:

I think you will be OK if you build up oil pressure by putting a long screwdriver blade in the distributor hole into the oil pump slot and spinning if with a drill. That will flush any water through and give everything a good coating of oil. I did that with my new engine that had been sitting for 5 or so years since it was built.

I then ran the engine on the starter with no spark plugs until I had good oil pressure.

John, presumably this would require removal of the distributor drive shaft too? Re-assembly looks a bit fiddly. Sounds like a good tip though.

Edited by Brian Eldred
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1 hour ago, RogerH said:

Hi Brian,

if it was the cam that I sold you (Moss TT1104) then it was run in at apprx 2000rpm for apprx 20minutes. with good oil ressure before start up.

I would have thought for a 5-10minute flush a cheaper oil with any ZDDP would suffice as it is not under load. Thn fill with something like the Heritage 20/50 as per above.

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

No that cam is in my 4A! The TR2 engine was rebuilt by the previous owners' dad some 20+ years ago, as was the rest of the car, and has not been on the road since. 

Cheaper oils don't seem to advertise ZDDP content, and the Halfords Classic that I've used before is no cheaper anyway. I think I'll put the Heritage in, I just want to get it fired up for now, lots more work to do before it's roadworthy.

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15 hours ago, Brian Eldred said:

John, presumably this would require removal of the distributor drive shaft too? Re-assembly looks a bit fiddly. Sounds like a good tip though.

Yep, take the distributor out and you will see a slot in the oil pump drive. I bought a cheap long screwdriver, cur the handle off and used a drill to spin it up. I only got a few lbs pressure but enough to get oil up into the rocker gear. 30 seconds cranking the engine without the plugs then got good pressure.

Refitting the distributor can be fiddly because of the helical gears. 

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John, Ian,

I did both yesterday afternoon (I too used an old screwdriver with the handle cut off), remembering to spin anti-clockwise, and then got 50 psi on cranking.

The engine fired up on first push of the button, ran a bit rough for a few seconds, on 3 cyls I think, then refused to start again. Carb pistons were sticking, and I think I flooded it. I read on here about how wet plugs can die, so am getting some new ones later today.

Thanks for all the advice from you knowledgeable people!

Brian

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